Michael: Each appointment that you close – let’s say the telemarketer in four hours sets you up one appointment. So, in two days if you’re closing fifty percent, you’ve got yourself a client that’s going to be an average of what?

Sam: An average of ten.

Michael: Ten grand?

Sam: Yes.

Michael: So, you’re paying the guy fifteen dollars an hour, $120 gets you $10,000 in revenue.

Sam: Really good return, isn’t it? Music Hi, this is Michael Senoff with HardtoFindSeminars.com and Consulting Secrets with another exclusive interview with an expert marketing consultant for the HMA trained consultants. This interview is with Sam Bowman. Sam Bowman’s out of Nashville, Tennessee. He has been consulting for eight years, and he was trained by Richard in Richard’s Marketing Consulting System, almost identical to the HMA system, but at that time under a different name. In this interview, you will hear how Sam gets clients. You’ll hear the word for word scripts he uses to get the appointment. You’ll hear exactly what Sam does on the appointment, what he says, where he sits, and how he gets the client to say yes. You’ll hear an exact breakdown of how many hours of calls his trained teleprospectors make to set an appointment. You’ll hear his favorite clients to work with. You’ll hear his warning list of the clients to run from. You’ll hear when he gets paid, how he charges, and how he keeps his clients happy. This is eight years of marketing consulting advice from a man who’s in his seventies, using Richard’s system to have a very successful marketing practice. You’ll also hear at the end a personal message from Sam to you, the HMA consultants. There’s a wealth of knowledge here. It’s not the kind of recording you’ll listen to one time. Make sure you print the transcripts and use some of the word scripts we did in the role-playing, enjoy!

Michael: Hey, Sam. Mike Senoff here.

Sam: Yeah.

Michael: How are you doing?

Sam: Good.

Michael: Do you have some time now?

Sam: Yes, that would be fine.

Michael: All right, great. Let me tell you the purpose of the call. It’s two fold interview expert marketing consulting or marketing consulting – some new, some very seasoned who have been in the field so they can share their stories and their experience of their marketing consulting careers – all the frustration, and all the good things about it. They really love this kind of stuff because we need to listen to someone who’s already been there, done that. It saves a lot of time and gives them a lot of confidence in going out there and doing it. I just basically ask your story, your experiences, and hopefully you can through the questions I ask, share some tidbits that would help existing consultants and help perspective people who are interested in marketing consulting get a realistic idea of what it’s like doing the business especially through the system that you learned through Richard. Sound good?

Sam: Yes.

Michael: Tell me what your name is and where you’re located and what do you consider yourself? Do you consider yourself a marketing consultant, a business specialist? How do you categorize what you do? What’s your USP?

Sam: Well, first of all, it’s Sam Bowman, and my company name is Bowman Consulting, LLC, and I target sales and marketing consultants who grow the sales and bottom line profits of small to medium sized companies running a million to five million in annual sales, and I guarantee a work which is kind of an unusual thing for any kind of consultant to do, to use those words in a consulting environment. But, I’ve done this for over eight years now, and have found a very, very exciting and enjoyable business environment, made a considerable amount of money, and have been extremely happy with the path that I’ve chosen to help these small to medium sized companies.

Michael: Okay, what advice would you give a new guy coming into this business? What two or three things would you want to sit down in front of him and tell him before they got started in this business?

Sam: One, you have to really want to work because it is hard work. It is work that you can control. It is extremely satisfying and rewarding work, but it does take effort and if you don’t want to work and you’re not a self-motivator, then you shouldn’t be in this business. Number two, you’ve got to be a problem solver. If you don’t solve the problems, then you don’t get the growth. Number three, you’ve got to be able to develop a rapport with a client and that includes the hourly employee. If you can do those three things, you can be successful as a sales and marketing consultant.

Michael: What were you doing eight years ago?

Sam: I was doing manufacturing consulting for two years prior to going into the sales and marketing. I’d taken early retirement from Allied Signal Automotive in ’95. My background is I’m an electrical engineer with an MBA in Finance. I’ve been with a lot of large major corporations throughout my business career, but always had the itch to have my own company. And, when I had an opportunity to take an early retirement from a joint American/Japanese company which was Allied Signal Automotive Corporation here in Galveston, Tennessee in ’95, I took the opportunity to take that early retirement and immediately went into manufacturing consultant, and I did very well at that. But, I found that I got tired of riding the silver bullets around the country, and wanted to be home every night which is a real advantage of having your own company in a specific limited marketing territory.

Michael: Where are you located?

Sam: My home office is Galveston, Tennessee which is just outside of Nashville, Tennessee. So, my marketing territory falls in Nashville plus the seven counties surrounding Nashville, and I don’t go outside of that territory simply because, as I said, I don’t want to have to spend an awful lot of time flying around the country.

Michael: Right. I lived in Nashville for about a year before I moved out here to San Diego.

Sam: Oh, you did?

Michael: In Brentwood?

Sam: Sure, absolutely. My wife is a native Nashvillian and I consider myself an absolute converted Tennessean, and we just love it here. It’s just a joy working with companies that are in need of sales and marketing expertise in my marketing territory surrounding Nashville.

Michael: So, you’re in manufacturing consulting. You didn’t like the traveling. Other than that, was there any negatives about consulting with manufacturing firms?

Sam: Well, I found it to be a little more cyclical. It was a little bit harder because you’re working with larger corporations normally, and it’s a little bit harder to keep the revenue consistent and it takes a lot of your time to book a larger corporation than it does the small to medium sized corporations.

Michael: Do you have an idea of the average time it would take to cycle on that from prospecting to booking a qualified appointment with the larger corporations? And, compare it to the smaller businesses you’re working with now.

Sam: To book one it would take on the order of two to three months to book.

Michael: And, how many different meetings?

Sam: It would take at least four meetings to get it done, and I work with partnership alliances with a company out of Pennsylvania, and they were more established. They broke down some of the barriers a little more quicker for me, but it still would take two plus months to be able to get in and get a contract signed and start to work with one of the larger corporations.

Michael: So, were you seeking out something different after the two years of the manufacturing consulting? How did you fall under Richard’s training?

Sam: It was advertised here in Nashville. It had a very brief introduction to consulting in general primary sales consulting, but it was sort of a general introduction into consulting.

Michael: What did you see an ad in the newspaper?

Sam: An ad in the local newspaper.

Michael: You’re in Nashville. It was in the major paper?

Sam: Yeah, the Nashville Tennessean.

Michael: It was an advertisement that caught your eye that basically said what?

Sam: It said, “Do you wish to be a consultant? Introductory consulting seminar”, and it was $35. And, my wife and I both attended the seminar which is about a four hour seminar.

Michael: So, was it in the morning?

Sam: Yes, two sessions – one in the morning, one in the afternoon. We could get to the afternoon. So, we went to the afternoon session.

Michael: So, did you have to call the number and schedule that you would be there or just show up?

Sam: No, we’d scheduled and we gave the credit card payment to be able to reserve a seat, and we went for the presentation which was very interesting, and from that.

Michael: You showed up at the presentation. Were you sitting at tables or were there just chairs? How was he presenting – orally, through PowerPoint slides?

Sam: He had a PowerPoint type presentation with packet of limited hand-out information. We were sitting at tables at one of the local hotels, in one of the conference rooms, sitting at tables.

Michael: Do you remember how many people were there?

Sam: Yeah, quite a few. I guess in our session there were probably 35-40.

Michael: So, that ad worked?

Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, it brought in quite a lot. Of course, it depended a lot on the economy, too. There have been a lot of companies that had been downsizing and people were trying to get new direction in their life and there were a lot that thought they were interested in being consultants. It was very timely though. And, then from the brief introductory type seminar, more formalized training program.

Michael: You had the four hour training there, and you heard some good stuff. Did he try and close you on higher end consulting package there? Or did he follow- up?

Sam: No, he did close on an audio consulting introductory program that cost about $150 to help you learn more about consulting and to take sort of a psychological profile to make sure that you were psychologically aligned to be able to be a consultant.

Michael: And, did you buy it?

Sam: Yes.

Michael: And, they had that at the back of the room there?

Sam: Exactly.

Michael: So, anyone that wanted more information, could buy more audio tapes that would take you deeper into the business?

Sam: Absolutely.

Michael: Did you go home and listen to them?

Sam: Oh, absolutely. I still have them in fact.

Michael: How many audiotapes was it? Do you know?

Sam: It might be eight.

Michael: Was it some good stuff?

Sam: Pretty fundamental. I wouldn’t say that it was overwhelming. It was beneficial. I felt like I got my money’s worth.

Michael: So, then what did you do? You listened to the audios, and?

Sam: And, received information regarding this sales modular system that was Richard’s system that was going to be presented in Orlando. I pretty much made up my mind that I wanted to try consulting and from the introductory information that the group had given me. I thought this would be very beneficial to me. It wasn’t exactly cheap.

Michael: How much was it?

Sam: It was pushing $5,000.

Michael: Okay.

Sam: But, our deal was my wife could go along with me for about $500, and so both of us went to Orlando for a three day very concentrated training seminar on Richard’s program, which was then call Special Consulting Marketing Program. They also identified it as a subtitle Extraordinary Power Marketing System. My wife and I went through the three days of concentrated training. Each attendee there was assigned a mentor to assist them in implementing the marketing program that we’d been trained on.

Michael: Take me back to the training. It was a three day training. You met Richard for the first time. What was your initial impression?

Sam: Extremely positive.

Michael: Professional?

Sam: Absolutely, and Richard had been through it. I kid him all the time because he sold encyclopedias on the street in Phoenix when he was first getting started in sales and marketing before he ever got associated with Jay Abraham and all that high powered sales and marketing theory. But, he knocked on doors and he came across as a knowledgeable guy, very funny, and had a good sense of humor, very pleasant, but very professional, too. So, he was very well received by the class there, and I was extremely pleased that he was assigned to be my mentor after the class was over. My wife and I went back to Nashville and began to put together our marketing program for this particular marketing territory here.

Michael: So, you came home, and you went through the training. Did you feel like you came home and knew exactly what to do first? Did you feel like you had a system or where you at all confused as to what you needed to do or how to do this system?

Sam: No, I pretty much felt like I had a system. I was not thoroughly comfortable with every module in the system, and I wasn’t thoroughly comfortable with the upfront activity that needed to be done. It’s just a matter of getting your feet wet and learning it. That’s like first of all selecting the Standard Investor Code that you really want to work with and selecting the sales revenue range that you want to work with, select the marketing territory that you want to work with, and I bought a contact list from InfoUSA. I had them put it in card format for me because I was going to be hiring a teleprospector versus a telemarketer – a teleprospector for business to business rather than the consumer.

Michael: How many leads did you buy?

Sam: I asked for all in the seven counties who met my SIC code criteria in that range, and it turned out to be 6,000.

Michael: Okay, so, you had 6,000 potential prospects in your territory.

Sam: Exactly, there was no way that I could cover all those, but it was wonderful to be able to have that list.

Michael: And, you knew you weren’t going to be doing the cold-calling?

Sam: That’s right. My wife and I both tried, and it didn’t take us long to realize that we weren’t any good at it, and I also had learning that the two things you have in consulting is your time and your talent, and you can’t waste those things. So, it was much more efficient for me to hire somebody with teleprospecting experience and to let them do the upfront appointment setting and me do the selling of the program and the closing of the program.

Michael: How did you go about finding that teleprospector?

Sam: First of all, I looked in the Yellow Pages. There was a company here that specialized in that type of service. So, I met with them and negotiated a contracted with them for so many teleprospecting hours using my call list, and we together developed the teleprospecting script. I worked with him as they practiced to make sure that they were getting it across correctly. I set up a reporting program with them for me. It wasn’t anything new to them because they always did this all the time where they gave you the number of calls per hour, the number of contacts made, the number of pitches that were able to be presented, the number of appointments that were able to be set. So, you had a statistical profile.

Michael: Do you remember the basic pitch that was scripted out?

Sam: Yes, I still use it.

Michael: So, let’s run through it. Let’s say you’re calling on me and you want to do a little run through on it?

Sam: Yeah, that sounds good.

Michael: Hey, this is Michael Senoff, how may I help you?

Sam: I’m calling for Sam Bowman who’s President of Bowman Consulting. Sam is a marketing consulting operating in the Nashville area here, and uses the Focus on Sales Marketing System to grow your sales and bottom line profits. We’re able to grow the sales anywhere from 25-100 percent or more depending upon what you want, and Sam guarantees his work. All he would like to do is have a one hour free consultation appointment with you to show you the benefits of the program and to get a little bit of information regarding your company. It doesn’t cost you a think and he would be available to meet with you at your convenience. Are you interested in growing your company in sales and bottom line profits?

Michael: Well, sure I am.

Sam: Well, that would be wonderful. Would you be available to meet with Sam let’s say at ten o’clock on Tuesday the 12th of April?

Michael: That would be fine. It’s not going to cost my anything?

Sam: Absolutely not. There’s no obligation. There’s no contract to sign. Sam operates on a strictly handshake basis. You don’t have to have elaborate contracts or this type of very expensive. He doesn’t feel like that’s the kind of business environment that would be beneficial to either one of you. So, I’ll be happy to have him there at ten o’clock on Tuesday. Now, let me confirm your company’s name and address and telephone number, and he will call and confirm the appointment before he comes in case you have any kind of difficulty at that time. Is your address such and such and such and your phone number such and such?

Michael: Very good. Now, what if they say, “No, I’m not interested.” What do you do?

Sam: If they say they’re not interested, “Thank you very much for your time and I wish you continued success in your business.”

Michael: All right, very good. So, this is what you’ve been using for all these years?

Sam: All these years.

Michael: And, tell me, you’ve done the numbers on this, how has this worked out for you? Do you have an idea?

Sam: In terms of closure?

Michael: Yeah, can you do a ratio of how many calls it takes to make how many appointment settings and out of those appointment settings, how many stick to the appointments? And, then what are the results of this campaign?

Sam: I’ve got a statistical breakdown of that, and the actual data that I collected for a considerable period of time, and I was looking for that the other day, but I just found it someplace and the whole thing is not on my PC. So, I’m going to speak from memory here.

Michael: Okay.

Sam: First of all, my teleprospector, I would not let them make more than four hours worth of calls a day.

Michael: All right, meaning one person making four hours.

Sam: One person making four hours of calls a day, five days a week, and I learned that because after four hours the mind goes and the voice goes.

Michael: Yeah, I agree.

Sam: So, I wouldn’t let them do that more than that period of time for five days a week.

Michael: What were the best hours that you found?

Sam: I went from nine to twelve, and then from one to two. The teleprospector – I pay them pretty good. They were contracted where I paid them $15 an hour.

Michael: Fifty bucks an hour?

Sam: Fifteen.

Michael: Fifteen, okay.

Sam: Fifteen dollars an hour, and I found that I was able to get a good quality teleprospector because you have to go through several teleprospectors because it’s a cyclical thing. They call. They book you up with a number of appointments that it takes for you to get six clients. Once you’re booked for six clients, it usually takes you six months to clear those six clients, and then you’re ready to go just prior to the end of that six months with another teleprospecting cycle. They don’t sit around and wait on you. So, for every cycle that I’ve had to go through, I’ve had to find a new teleprospector, train them myself.

Michael: Okay because they come and go. All right, so, you’ll hire a teleprospector. They’re going to do four hours of calls a day for five days. What do you see happen after a week of calling once they’re trained properly?

Sam: Well, the number of calls per day that they’re able to make, and this is how you tell whether or not someone is actually doing the job. I don’t bring them into my office here. I let them work from their office or from their home, but they prepare for me a call sheet everyday, and that way I know that they’re making the number of calls – really doing the job correctly. In order to get this, they couldn’t make more than ten calls an hour, if they have any kind of presentation success in there. A lot of it, you get blocked, voice mail, and that type of thing. They can get about six calls an hour. So, they make about forty calls a day for me. They might get through to 25 percent of that. So, they can get through to ten, and out of ten, they might book me one appointment.

Michael: You can book a good, solid appointment just about every day.

Sam: Just about every day.

Michael: So, four hours will get you one appointment?

Sam: That’s about right. They would know my appointment schedule, but I would only take one appointment in the morning and one appointment in the afternoon five days a week. Once they book for ten, they would move on to the next week.

Michael: I gotcha. So, they were keeping you pretty booked up?

Sam: Yes, after they got up over their learning curve, yeah. The first two to three days, they were all on the upslope of the learning curve. Then, after they got really comfortable with the script and so forth, they would convert it to their sheet which sounds better. Then, the appointments really began to develop. So, the latter part of the first week is when the appointments would really begin to start.

Michael: Would you confirm them before you went yourself personally?

Sam: Absolutely because I’ve learned it doesn’t do any good to drive all the way over to appointment, and the guy not be there for some very valid reason.

Michael: So, when you call back, you introduce yourself as Sam Bowman. “We’ve got an appointment set for this day, is that right?” Now, do you pre-qualify them more when you got them on the phone there?

Sam: No.

Michael: You just confirm the appointment and you go out and you meet with them?

Sam: That’s correct. Part of the teleprospector’s responsibility is to do a little bit of pre-qualifying. They do a little brief survey of the company. So, what I found is that it’s kind of a turnoff to take that much time to try to do a survey right there. So, if I get in front of them and can sell the program and go directly into the needs analysis, that’s a better way of doing it than to tie up the call time and waste the potential client’s time with that front-end pre- qualification.

Michael: So, you don’t have your telemarketers do too much pre-qualification?

Sam: No, I’ve done it with the SIC codes and the revenue range and the geographic location.

Michael: All right, that’s a good point.

Sam: And, I don’t care who they are. I don’t deal with liquor stores. I don’t deal with attorneys. I don’t deal with cleaners. Cleaners are ones that have a terrible pollution problem that just makes their business very, very difficult. I don’t do the copy businesses.

Michael: Copy shops?

Sam: These printing and copy shops because they’re a dime a dozen and there’s one on every corner and the business is so damn competitive. The poor people are struggling something awful. You can’t help them because the market is so trumped up.

Michael: There’s no margins in it.

Sam: There sure isn’t.

Michael: What about restaurants?

Sam: I’ve done one.

Michael: Who have you found that have been just pleasures – ideal clients with nice margins in there?

Sam: Manufacturers.

Michael: You like manufacturers?

Sam: Absolutely. I like wholesale distribution. I like retail. Retail has been very good. I’ve had grocery chains, and I’ve done mill like maintenance company which is kind of close to manufacturing because they make dies and things like that for the automotive industry, but really, I don’t classify them as manufacturing.

Michael: Okay, so, you’ve got five appointments booked that week. Once they get over the learning curve, you’ve got five appointments booked and we’ll get back to the actual appointment, but how many will you end up bringing on as a client out of five?

Sam: I have about a fifty percent close ratio.

Michael: Okay, so two and a half?

Sam: Yes.

Michael: Okay, let’s go into one of your appointments. So, let’s bypass all of your learning curve, and let’s go into how you do an appointment and what works. So, you drive out to the appointment. You walk in.

Sam: I need to back-up.

Michael: Okay.

Sam: You need to do a little prep of this thing.

Michael: Okay, let’s do that. So, you’ve got an appointment. You know who the company is. What kind of preparation are you going to do before you go in?

Sam: I have the system information booklet that Richard provides, and I customized it a little bit by making the cover sheet in their name and so forth. I always carry an extra one of those when I come in my briefcase. I have one which I keep with me all the time. Of course, then there’s one for the decision making.

Michael: It has the picture “What’s the most popular form of gambling?”

Sam: Yeah.

Michael: Okay, I know what you’re talking about.

Sam: Of the advertiser, yeah.

Michael: So, you go in with that?

Sam: Yeah.

Michael: And, one for him and one for you.

Sam: Well, I keep an extra one there in case somebody else shows up that I’m not aware is going to show up there. So, I keep an extra one there just to be able to hand it out to them.

Michael: Okay.

Sam: I will do a one-page summary of my qualifications, and have four endorsements that I carry with me. When you’re first getting started, you don’t have any endorsements, and then the really weak. There are endorsements in that introductory booklet, but you don’t have any in your marketing territory or anybody that has a phone that you can call them and see what you can do. So, it’s really a hindrance and a barrier when you’re first getting started. Therefore, you can’t be as selective on the level of clients that you’re able to take. I’ve taken some that are supposed to be in millions of dollars in sales, but just getting started they were only like 600,000, and when you get down that low, you’re getting into some real problem type companies. So, you just can’t be as selective when you’re first getting started as you can whenever you’ve got an established track record. So, the first thing I do is I walk in and I introduce myself, and I say, “I want you to have this summary of my qualifications to know that you’re really dealing with a professional here. You can look at them and read them at your convenience.” And, then they usually just take them and glance down through it. If something strikes them, we might chat about it a minute. But, I say, “I also want to leave these endorsements with you and feel free to call them at any time to get their opinion as to the service that I’ve been able to provide for them.” Then I step right in and say, “I’d like to introduce you to the Focus on Sales Marketing System or Richard’s Marketing System, and this is a very brief introductory packet on that particular system. I’d just like to talk you through it. And, as you know that advertising is the primary media that’s used by most companies and it is a crapshoot, and you really don’t know what you’re getting in terms of return on your investment when you do that type of thing, but this modulized system here, and it is a system. You are able to measure the concrete results module by module to be able to know what kind of growth each of the modules is providing.” And, I briefly talk them through the seven modules getting as quickly as I can to the growth matrix, and I fill in their information there.

Michael: Do they know it pretty good?

Sam: Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. We don’t have to be exact here because this thing has got such exponential growth capability that you can give me just rough figures here. So, I get into the growth matrix there and show them that if they want to grow their company half a million dollars a year, let’s say that they’re a two million dollar a year company and they want to grow it a half a million. That’s like a 25 percent growth rate there then you really get closer to 40 percent with the exponential growth. I tell them, “That’s how I guarantee my work. If I don’t have to hit 25 percent on each of these three major growth elements – getting new prospects, upselling, improvement in your current marketing techniques. I don’t have to do all that kind of stuff for 25 percent of each one of them to get your growth. I can miss on one or two of them and still be able to provide you with your half a million dollar growth here. Now, are you interested in exploring the program a little bit further?” Most the time, thank God, their appetite is whetted and even though I’ve attempted to limit it to an hour, they will go an hour or an hour and a half because they are very much interested in it. Then, I roll right into the needs analysis.

Michael: So, you go right into the opportunity analysis.

Sam: Yes, that’s right. When you do the needs analysis, you’re figuring in your mind what the market will bear in terms of consulting fees. Let’s take for example, he’s make two million dollars a year and the needs analysis – you don’t have to tell me your gross profit margin – I’m going to guess that you’re about 25 percent, and they say, “Well, that’s okay, when can get that.” I want to grow your business half a million dollars so, we’re going to put $125,000 on your bottom line, and I’m not really going to increase your overhead. This is an expense, sure it is, but it’s a very positive return on investment. So, I always try to say 5:1 to 10:1 return on investment, my fee to their gross profit growth.

Michael: So, give me an example.

Sam: Okay, if they’re at $125,000 on the top end, my fee would be $12,500 and I charge $2,500 a module. I know that I could stay at 10:1 and book five modules. Follow that?

Michael: Yes, if you’re $125,000, you’ve got $12,500 that you can divide between the modules.

Sam: That’s right. That’s $12,500 divided by $2,500 that’s what I charge per module, and I also know that with that type of growth that their 25 percent growth right there. I can usually can get it in four if I get myself a little bit extra revenue there if I do it in five, I will do it in five.

Michael: So, you’re taking them through the opportunity analysis, and you’re able to get through these presentations in about an hour and a half?

Sam: Sure.

Michael: Are you closing all the way through when you’re going through the module?

Sam: I’m not closing at all. I’m selling them on the concept, figuring in my own mind, but they’re going to ask you, “How much does this darn thing cost?” They do it everytime.

Michael: Before you’re done?

Sam: Well, at the end of it, and I’m saying, “It depends.” I’m not sure whether I can get the growth with four modules or it may take five modules. I’m going to go back and look at the survey that I’ve done, and I’m going to see what I think it’s going to be required to get you the growth guaranteed. There’s no written contract on this thing. If I come in and start working for you, and you don’t like the way I’m doing things. You say, “Sam goodbye.” And, I’m gone and there’s no problem in doing that at all, but I can tell you in all my eight plus years of consulting, I’ve never had that happen.

Michael: You’ve always done it that way?

Sam: Yes.

Michael: No contracts, nothing?

Sam: No contracts, guarantee – everything from me to you is what I’m going to do, is in writing. It is specified, and you’re going to see what I’m going to do for you. What you’re going to do for me is guaranteed by a handshake because that’s the way I operate.

Michael: And, what’s the guarantee Sam?

Sam: My guarantee says that if you allow me to implement all the modules that I think are required to get you your sales growth and you allow me to complete that implementation, I will have you at or above your growth target twelve months after installation of the last module, or I will continue to work for you free with no charge until I am able to meet those targets. Do you understand the guarantee?

Michael: Yes, I understand the guarantee.

Sam: And, I’ve never had to use it.

Michael: Okay, great.

Sam: I’ve always been ahead or above it.

Michael: Well, let me take you back to this. So, your prospect says, “Well, how much is this thing going to cost?” And, you’re telling them you need to kind of look at the needs analysis. Do you quote them there, or do you come back to them with a quote?

Sam: No, I say, “This is a seven module system, and you’ve got a basic understanding of the module system. I’ve got to think about this a little longer. It may take four. It may take five. It may take six. I don’t know, yet, but I’d like to come back in” and you set a specific appointment. “I’d like to come back to give you a written proposal that tells you exactly what I’m going to do for you in writing, and 95 percent of the work. All I ask for you is to do five percent. If you could afford a sales and marketing executive, you could do this type of thing. There’s no magic to this at all. This is a systemized approach to grow your sales and bottom line profit. But, you don’t have the time to do that. You’re spending your time putting out fires and handling the everyday operations of your company, and I’m going to be your acting sales and marketing executive here. But, I want to put it in writing and let you see specifically what I’m going to be doing for you and the number of modules I think it’s going to take, what my guarantee is and what the fee is associated with this, and let you see that it is a very worthwhile return on your monetary investment. So, are you free such and such a day at such and such a time? And, I’ll come back and present this to you.” And, usually it’s, “Yes, I’ll be happy to do it.”

Michael: Now, what are you thinking? You’ve taken them through. You understand how much money there is in it for you. What kind of preparation do you do before you go back?

Sam: What I do is I prepare a formal closing, and I select the number of modules that it’s going to take. I state in there in writing that I’m going to do 95 percent of the work, and that each module takes about 30 days to get it implemented and that a guarantee is in there as I am focusing. And, another critical point is that you have to have a specific starting point to measure the growth, like if I’m sitting here right now and the first part, I say, “I will grow your business 25 percent from your ending sales and profit position as of December the 31st, 2004.” And, the guy says, “Well, I’ve already had just a little bit of growth here.” That’s okay. I have to have a starting point someplace.

Michael: Are you doing this after the first meeting?

Sam: I’m doing this after the first meeting, yes. In the proposal, you’ve got to have a concrete starting point so that’s your baseline to measure the growth. So, you show them what you’re doing.

Michael: And, you explain that to them?

Sam: I explain that to them, exactly. I don’t take the time to do it right then. If they say, “Well, I may have two, three percent growth the first quarter of 2005.”, I say, “I’ll make you grow 30 percent to compensate for that, and I’ll just change the contract right there and initial the thing.” But, you’ve got so much room to fool with under this system. But, some of them continue and they’ll say, “Well, I want to grow my business 50 percent.” I say, “Well, that’s wonderful, but I don’t think you can absorb 50 percent growth in a year. That’s unreasonable. Why don’t we just look and see where your company is and set a more realistic growth target here because I’m not going to let you outgrow your ability to absorb growth.” Then, we agree upon a percentage increase that occurs there. And, that’s in the initial discussion portion before you even come into making the final proposal. You’ve agreed upon the target growth before you ever put it into writing.

Michael: That’s on the first meeting?

Sam: Yes, exactly, and then you go back on the second meeting and you close then. And, you say, “Okay, I’m going to be here on such and such a day to being module number one. I will need a check for $2,500 at that time, and we will begin module number one establishing your strategic marketing position. I’m going to be doing surveys with you, your key employees, and I want to talk to anyone at any time or interface with anyone outside of your company.”

Michael: Okay, can I take you back to the second appointment? So, you go back on the second appointment. You’ve got your proposal and you go in. What’s the purpose there?

Sam: The purpose is to find exactly what you’re going to do for the client, establish the base starting point, and to point out the guarantee, point out the fact that you’re going to be doing 95 percent of the work, and you also point out that you’re their problem solver because out of the survey process, and you tell them this, out of the survey process which is in module number one, I’m going to give you a feedback report that’s confidential. I’m not going to name any names of any of your employees who reveal things to me, but I’m going to tell you what your employees understand on some of the operating problems of your company. I’m going to take those on and work with you to solve those operating problems because if you don’t solve your operating problems, you can’t grow your company. You’ve got to be a problem solver. You can’t grow a client’s company if there are internal operating problems. For example, I had one client whose son was stealing from the company. I had to identify that, but I identified that to the owner of the company and he had to let his go. That was very hard, but you’re there to do the job of growing the sales and bottom line profits and any operating offset that gets in the way, and every one of them have it. I don’t care who they are. They all got it - either computer systems, Human Resource problem, lack of proper equipment in the company – and my business background was broad enough that it allows me to assist them in solving these things. Now, I don’t go out and buy their equipment for them, that type of thing, but I say, “You need to put material back into your operation here because it’s seriously hurting your business.” So, you’ve got to identify, and you do that in module number one, and I talk to everyone who handles any kind of interface with anybody outside of the company including the reception. She’s one of the key ones in the whole company. The image of the company is presented by the receptionist.

Michael: So, you’re going into the business and hanging around and talking to everybody?

Sam: Yeah, I have a specific survey for all the employees in the company that I consider to be key employees, not necessarily because they’re part of top management, but because they interface with the outside world – the shipping superintendent or whoever ships to the customer’s product, who ever receives it in from outside suppliers. They are key people to know the operating problems of the company.

Michael: Yeah, they know what’s going on.

Sam: It takes me 30 minutes of survey, and I may do seven surveys in module number one. So, I really get their understanding of what the SMP is from their perspective and their definition of what the operating problems are.

Michael: What’s SMP?

Sam: Strategic Marketing Position, or the Unique Selling Proposition.

Michael: Tell me how you price it?

Sam: Every module is priced at $2,500 a module, and as I begin a new module it is payment up front.

Michael: So, you’re getting your $2,500 for the USP upfront?

Sam: Exactly.

Michael: You get down at the second meeting sometimes?

Sam: No, because see most of the time you’re not even set up in their Accounts Payable system. So, you give them the business card, get the company information on the proposal, and give the accounting people time to set it up in the AP and they’ll cut you a check when you come in. I’ve had it happen to me before where some folks would try to flim-flam me and not pay me. They’d want me to do the work, and say, “I’ll pay you after it’s over.” “No, the agreement that we have on the handshake is you pay me as we go. You’re going to have to trust me because I’m trusting you, and if you don’t feel like you can pay me upfront, then we can’t do business together.” And, I’ve had to walk out.

Michael: The second that you confirmed your handshake, they’re got exactly what you’re going to do for them. They understand that the first module’s going to be $2,500, and then you set up the time to come back and get to work, right?

Sam: That’s correct.

Michael: So, by the time you get into the system and you come back, are you getting paid before you start?

Sam: As soon as I walk in there, and I say, “I’m here to begin module number one your Strategic Marketing Position, is there someplace that I can have a private area to do these confidential surveys? And, by the way, do you have my first module payment?” And, usually they have an envelope right there and give it right to you.

Michael: Great. So, you’ve taken me through the process. How many years have you been doing this?

Sam: A little over eight.

Michael: Eight years. So, tell me about your business today. How’s it been? You’ve got this thing down pretty good. How much are you working it?

Sam: Well, I had an automobile accident in February of 2003, and I booked a client in June of 2002 with this method as I’ve described it to you. But, he wanted me to do more than just the sales and marketing for him. So, I actually became his acting director of operations. I did his business plan, his operating plan, his cash flow plan, and all that kind of stuff for him, and he like what he saw there. This was like an intro going into the module program, but he had deeper needs, more needs.

Michael: He wanted to hire you basically.

Sam: He wanted to hire me, but I didn’t want to be hired. I want to be an independent contractor. So, in June 2002, I went to work for him as almost a full-time until I did that. So, in July of 2003, I was hurt in an automobile wreck coming back from that particular client’s operation, and I still continue to work with him through March of 2004, and I took care of my other two clients as well. Then, I had to have surgery, and I’ve been out of whack for – I just started back.

Michael: So, back then when you were really cranking, when you were going at your hardest, how many clients were you working with at a time?

Sam: I averaged four.

Michael: Did you find that you could do more, or that’s what you were comfortable with?

Sam: That’s what I was comfortable with.

Michael: You can do six?

Sam: Yeah, I went to them once a week every week – one in the morning, one in the afternoon, but you got to leave some time in there to do the analytical work. So, I would log in three days, two clients a day that would be six maximum, and then the other two days, I would be doing analytical work. That’s the way it would be done, but I would be doing analytical work at night, too with it.

Michael: So, each appointment that you close – let’s say the telemarketer in four hours, sets you up one appointment. So, in two days, if you’re closing fifty percent, you’ve got yourself a client that’s going to be worth an average of what?

Sam: An average of ten.

Michael: Ten grand. So you’re paying a guy $15 an hour, $60 a day, $120 gets you $10,000 in revenue?

Sam: It’s a pretty good return, isn’t it?

Michael: Very good. So, it really didn’t take too much telemarketing to have your appointments booked.

Sam: No, the only negative to is that you’ve got to go through the recurring cycle all the time.

Michael: So, in your eight years, can you talk about a couple real exciting success stories that just really made the whole business fulfilling and what you’ve done for some businesses?

Sam: Oh, yeah, the manufacturing one was a specialty advertising products company. He primarily made name tag badges, but he was in manufacturing. We just knocked the socks off that guy and got him where orders were coming in almost transparent through the website and e- communication type marketing and that was a very good success. Another good one that pops off the top of my head was a medical software company that provided software transmission for companies that provide medical equipment and with HIPPA and with the need to file to Medicare automatically, they provided that kind of software. We did extremely well. I only had one failure, and my one failure was just because I never could get the CEO to do what I asked him to do, and finally I just had to walk out.

Michael: Okay, that’s problem is getting them to implement.

Sam: Exactly, and the thing about it when you’re talking a million to five million in sales. They’ll average that. They’re usually trying to do the sales and marketing themselves and are miserable at it because they just don’t have time to do it. So, they’ve got all the operating problems that a major corporation has, but they can’t afford the time to do it. So, by automating this thing by module by module implementation and giving them the tools to automate with, you can really draw some success, and I had very good success with retailers and I had a good success with a retail health company. He had two stores.

Michael: The owners of the businesses, the people who hire you, are they really on your side to make sure the employees implement the systems and stick with them?

Sam: Yes.

Michael: How do you cover that?

Sam: Well, I give them the tools with which to measure what’s going on after I leave. I’ve developed Excel programs that shows them where the new prospects are coming from, what their conversion ratio is, what their average value of their new client is, and they track it week by week by week just following that, just collecting the data and having somebody enter into the Excel spreadsheet file that I give them. They’re able to track the continuing growth that they’re able to get from prospects that are converted to clients, from clients that you upsell them, and they’re able to really measure the continuing benefits of the program.

Michael: Do you ever establish any contingency agreements with these clients?

Sam: I actually had one of them put me on retainer to keep wanting to call on me in case they got into any kind of problems. They did all right. So, there wasn’t much work for me to do.

Michael: Let me ask you this – when you go home after that first appointment and you’ve done the needs analysis, and you’re kind of analyzing which modules would work for them. Are you looking for the low-hanging fruit or do you see opportunities after you’ve done that needs analysis that just jump right at you that tell you you’re going to be able to get the growth?

Sam: Well, it really is a system, and I’ve never a growth be able to be achieved unless you install the first four modules. The first four modules are almost given. So, you’re only talking about five, six and seven, and five, six and seven really the vision comes from the opportunity analysis. If you’ve got to use all three of them for a total of seven, then fine, you don’t have any decision to make. If you’re having to choose between five and six, then yeah there’s a decision to be made there but after you get into the program with the client and you see that you’ve made a wrong decision, there’s nothing wrong with substituting seven for six. So, you can adjust it on the fly. Everything that I’ve got is ten – all the presentations that I’m going to do, each one of the modules is ten. All I have to do is add the new company name into the module. Every module is explained. The growth matrix is explained. The starting point is explained. I just have to change the figures based on the prospect’s information. So, it’s not a great deal to come back and put together a proposal. It’s just a matter of sitting down in front of the PC and adding into the template the information that’s unique to that particular client.

Michael: The first module, developing the USP, generally are you able to get some growth?

Sam: Module number one is a foundation module. We’ve got to determine your USP first before we can go forward. So, you’re not going to get any growth – and this is one of the questions they ask you, “How soon will I begin to see growth?” Well, you begin to see growth after module number two. There will be a little bit of growth, and the amount of growth that we get depends on how successful we are in getting all the elements of module number two up and running in a timely fashion, but you’re not going to see any growth out of module number one. So, they say, “I’m going to have $5,000 invested in it before I see a return.” Yes, that’s true. You’re not going to have that. Working with me and seeing the problems that I’m able to solve for you as well as putting the elements in that’s going to give you your growth and give you the tools with which to measure it, you’re going to be well satisfied with your $5,000 investment before you begin to see growth.

Michael: So, what would you say? What’s the market like out there? Are businesses hungry for information like this and consultants?

Sam: It depends upon the economic conditions. The worse the economy is the better your chances of booking clients. The better the economy the less likely it is. But, with over 6,000 potential clients, I’ve never been able to get through anything like that.

Michael: What do you mean you haven’t been able to get through?

Sam: Well, there’s just too many for me.

Michael: Yeah, you haven’t even gone through them all.

Sam: No, I can’t. So, out of that, the ability to select six at a time four average, is not difficult. In good times, there are always companies out there that are in good times, but they know they don’t have the company under control and they’re not able to set the growth targets to maximize their growth potential. So, you may have to make more teleprospecting calls. Your sales ratio maybe a little bit less in the bad times, but you can always book them.

Michael: Now, that you’ve been doing this, I know you’ve got the cold-calling and prospecting from the leave, but how about your referral business? When you were really going to generate referrals from your happy customers?

Sam: I’ve had one referral. Usually what happens is these people at this size level, they still don’t have a whole heck of a lot of time beyond running their company and monitoring the growth that they’re getting through the sales and marketing module, but they don’t have time to do a referral. I’ve had one referral that has brought me good. It’s not that they don’t want. I use them as endorsements. I’ve got endorsements from everyone, and that’s part of module number one. I get endorsements for the clients, too. So, I’ve expanded module number one. I get the strategic marketing position, the uniqueness defined by all the employees that I get the list of, five or six customers that are truly representative of the customer base out there, and I do their survey, and if they refute anything that’s listed in the uniqueness by the company and the management employees of the company, I can’t use it. But, at the same time, I get the customers and I also ask them for an endorsement of the client. I write all the endorsements. I’m send them to them. They’re able to edit them and change them any way they want to. They sign them. They send them back to me, and I retain them in my files to protect me from any kind of advertising litigation. So, I’ve got his endorsement, and then I do my competitive analysis where I’ve got methods that I can go and find out what the competitors are doing and if the competitors are doing anything that in a sense is filtered in the uniqueness down from the company through the customers to the competitors, then we can’t use that. But, when we get done, we do get a very strong strategic marketing position statement as well as customer endorsements.

Michael: What are the rewards that make it really fulfilling for you?

Sam: The success of the client. You’re no longer a client, you’re really a friend. I’ve gone to parties with them, and become very good friends with most of my clients. To all the HMA consultants, please use what you’ve heard here in the spirit of which it is given. It’s a rewarding path if it does fit your personality, and don’t be afraid to give it a try because the risk is more paid back by the rewards.