Michael: Hi, it's Michael Senoff with MichaelSenoff's HardtoFindSeminars.com. The title of this interview is called "The Amazing Story of How One Child Recovered From Autism". Leeann Whiffen's son, Clay was 16 months old when she started noticing a change in his behavior. His normal happy disposition and language skills were suddenly replaced with a lack of eye contact and severe tantrums. It didn't take long for doctors to diagnose Clay with autism. And soon after the diagnosis, Leeann found herself on a journey to find and fight for the treatment that would eventually lead to his recovery. Now she's the author of the hit book A Child's Journey out of Autism and is fighting to pass legislation that will force insurance companies to pay for necessary treatments to help autism. And in this audio, you'll also hear all about her incredible story. You'll also hear a simple laundry list of symptoms to look for if you suspect your child has autism. Spooky insights into the triggers that cause autism and why the jury may still be out on whether today's vaccines are really as safe as claimed. You'll learn the key strategies for finding the right treatment plan for your autistic child along with the best therapies available today. You'll learn a checklist for parents that will get them on the fast track to recovery for their autistic child. You'll learn the often overlooked dietary staple that could be worsening the symptoms in your autistic child. You'll learn why most insurance companies won't treat autism and how to get the kind of treatment your child deserves. According to Leeann, early detection and treatment is absolutely critical for recovery to be a possibility. But fortunately, there are a lot of resources available for parents to turn to if you know where to look. And this interview will tell you how to get started. Now, let's get going. Hi, this is Chris Costello and I've teamed up with Michael Senoff to bring you the world's best wellness related interviews. So if you know anyone struggling with their weight with cancer, diabetes, adhd, autism, heart disease, or other health challenges, please send them to Michael Senoff's HardToFindSeminars.com. We're talking today with Leeann Whiffin. And Leeann Whiffen has written a book called A Child's Journey out of Our Family Story of Living in Hope and Finding a Cure. This is an incredibly inspiring book about one family's journey with their son and the discovery of his autism and all of the things that they did to bring about his eventual Recovery. Leeann, we're just so pleased that you could join us today.

Leeann: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Chris: In the book Journey out of Autism, you have some very powerful and moving descriptions of what those early experiences with your son were like. Can you share some of those experiences with our listeners?

Leeann: Sure. My son regressed into autism. He developed normally until about 16 months, and at that point, we started to lose him. And I would equate that to almost losing a child in death because he was with us. And over several months, he began to lose skills. And one of those was calling me mom. And that was so difficult for me to see that disappear along with his eye contact, the rest of his language. And it was replaced with this really severe behavior to where we couldn't take him out into public. And it was really hard on our family. And I think as a mom, we have those feelings that we need to be connected to our kids, and to lose that was devastating. It was hard to see other kids being typical, and that might sound petty, but everywhere we would go, I would see how far behind he was and how much I wanted that, not only just for me, but for him to have a happy and fulfilling life, to be able to be where he was before he regressed. It was very difficult to join in with other moms and to go to the park and to do those fun things that you typically would do because his behavior was so bad and we never lasted for very long.

Chris: Some of the things you mentioned were just, you know, the daily coping of the tantrums and the meltdowns just made it really difficult. It sounded like it did.

Leeann: I felt like I was a prisoner in my own home because it was hard. And it was dangerous to take him out, too, because he didn't understand fear and would run in the street or would often times put himself into danger. And that concerned me a lot as well. I remember a trip in particular to the grocery store where I had to abandon my cart because I'd forgotten that Clay was obsessed with the produce section and started grabbing for all the round.

Chris: Fruits and vegetables at the bottom of the pile.

Leeann: Yeah. So they start tumbling, and I'm thinking, oh, no crisis mode here. And so we run out, and he's fighting me and kicking and scratching, and I'm trying to hold him the best that I can. And by that point, there were several bystanders that were staring, and I thought, you know, I wish that they would know and understand. And that's a lot of why I wrote the book as well, is to raise awareness of what families have to go through and how they have their entire lifestyles to suit these types of behaviors. It's very difficult in every aspect of life, I think.

Chris: Right. It's not just a matter of discipline or a child that's out of control. These are very, very difficult behaviors to change, it sounds like. Now, if our listeners out there, you know, if they have concerns that their child might have autism or Asperger's syndrome, what are some of the symptoms and the signs that they should be looking for?

Leeann: Research has really come a long way as far as detecting early. And I think as early as 18 months, your child should be making eye contact and definitely pointing and even having a couple words. You know, there's no need to panic if maybe one of those milestones haven't started happening yet. It's kind of a culmination of them. But you know, what I found as a mom, you really just know. It's just that gut feeling that maybe something's not quite right. And to follow that. Don't let the pediatrician or doctor talk you out of what you're feeling. Pursue it until you're comfortable that it's either been resolved or that you need to get further help.

Chris: Now, you did a very interesting thing because of this powerful, inspirational story in A Child's Journey out of Autism, which you wrote. Sounds like it has moved you into all sorts of advocacy work. And you came up with something that we thought was very interesting, which is the Fast Start checklist.

Leeann: Oh, yes.

Chris: Yeah. Now, how did you get inspired to do that and what is that all about? I think that would be very helpful to people listening today.

Leeann: With treatment with Clay, it took so many hours that I just wasn't able to advocate the way I wanted to. And there were so many parents that had helped me along the way. I really felt like I needed to give back once I could, and I had the time. And that was one of the first things I wanted to do because we just didn't have direction when Clay was diagnosed. We bounced around and researched a lot on the Internet, but didn't have a clear cut plan. To me, that's extremely important because you waste precious treatment time, because research shows the earliest the treatment, the better the prognosis. And so I wanted to create this Fast Start checklist to help parents get on the fast track to treatment, because I knew that by doing that, it would help their child much more in the long run. And so basically, it just goes through and pinpoint things to do right off the bat that you can check off you know, the very first thing, obviously I think, is to get a diagnosis and to figure out what you're dealing with. Because you may have someone say, well, he may have autism, but he may not. And it may be this. So go to a neuropsychologist and get a professional diagnosis and figure out what's happening, because that's your starting point. And then from there you can work out treatment options I have on there to rule out any other genetic disorders. You also want to see a physician as well, or a geneticist. Just make sure that it's not fragile X or something that maybe you didn't know they had. Get their hearing checked, make sure they don't have a hearing problem, because they seem like they do, but most often times they don't. It's just part of their symptoms, their autistic symptoms. And then I would launch right into the treatment part of it and keep really good records of what is working and what's not. Because each child is so different. And while there are those gold standard treatments like ABA, maybe that won't help another child, maybe theirs is a different piece to the puzzle. And so keep a good record of their response rates with treatment. So you know, if it's working and if it's not, you can try something different.

Chris: So basically it's a real discovery process with each individual child. And some treatments work better than others. It sounds like.

Leeann: Yes. And of course I'm an advocate of what helps my child, but I've been in the community long enough to realize that unfortunately each child is so different now.

Chris: There's also a lot of groups, it seems like now, for supporting people with autism. Are there some of those that you can mention that parents can turn to?

Leeann: There are a lot. My favorite, probably as autism speaks, just because they're involved in many different ways. Well, I wouldn't say it's my favorite, but it's one of the top ones. They fund a lot of research. Maybe not the research I would like to see, but I have other organizations that I'll bring up that do see that other research, but they help with advocacy and I've been involved here in our state with trying to get a bill passed that would require insurance companies to pay for medically necessary autism treatments and diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders. Because I feel like once we can get that autism is a medical diagnosis that has evidence based treatments, once we can get those covered by insurance, it will save parents so much time and hassle and cost and it will help the child so much because it will be able to help them sooner than if the parents were trying to scrape up the money to pay for those treatments. And so they endorse our bill and they support those types of initiatives. There's also the National Autism association is one of my favorites as well. They support a lot of the biomedical treatments. And what I like about them is they have a. That helps families. Autism is so difficult on relationships because you're so consumed with trying to help your child that sometimes you forget about everything else and everyone else in your family. I think it's called Helping hand, and they help parents get therapy for marriage, and it just helps keep families together. And then there's one more down in Southern California called Taca that I really like. They have a great website that has a lot of information on there as far as any types of treatment. But there's biomedical treatment, and sometimes that can be tricky. And they really are able to simplify that for parents just starting out and those that are further along as well. And that stands for Talk about Curing Autism now.

Chris: Great. And I know there's a lot of good discussion boards out there. And then you yourself also have a wonderful website that's very comprehensive. Leeannwiffen.com, right?

Leeann: Yes.

Chris: I wanted to go over with you, Leeann, just a little bit more about kind of the symptoms for our listeners out there that may have a young child that they're seeing, some behaviors that concern them. What are some symptoms that really just jump out when you're seeing a child with Asperger's or autism?

Leeann: Well, the core deficits of autism are social and communication and stereotypical behavior. Big red blatant flags are any type of toe walking or arm flapping. Any type of regression in skills is definitely a red flag. And that includes pointing and talking and all of those. If there's any sort of sleep issues, and I know that's a hard one because a lot of typical kids have sleep issues, but that was one eye contact and just acting. If they're deaf, if they act like they're deaf but you know they're not because they may turn their head at other things, but maybe not when you talk to them, that's a definite sign as well. Gesturing and pointing. If they don't grab you and pull you over to show you something, or if they don't point at something and try and engage you, that's a big red flag, too. But that can happen as early as between a year and 18 months. Rigidity, I think a lot of Clay's tantrums Stemmed from his rigidity, having a hard time transitioning from one activity to the next. And, you know, just spending time with other kids your child's age is a big deal. Just see if he or she is doing the same sorts of things that those kids are. If they're not, there could be a problem.

Chris: Great. And that sounded like with your son Clay, that that was kind of one of your first clues where the playgroup started. Not quite working.

Leeann: Yes.

Chris: All right. So another thing that you list on your website that seemed very helpful was a very nice list of treatments that are available for dealing with autism. Can you go over those with our listeners?

Leeann: Well, there's the behavior treatment and what we did with our son. ABA, which is applied Behavior Analysis. It's early intense behavior therapy. It's one on one, usually done in the home, sometimes done in a center like card, I believe, which is based out of California center for Autism and Related Disorders. And that's the one that has the most research behind it. And the research shows that 48% of children between the ages of three and five that make it through that program can become indiscernible from their peers. Another 40% can become the middle outcome, which they can hopefully live independent lives someday. And then there's 10% that maybe aren't helped quite as much. So that probably is the most well known. Although there's also something called floor time, which Stanley Greenspan is the founder of. And I don't know quite as much about that, but we did do that a little bit because our early intervention taught me how to do that. So I did that a little bit in conjunction with our ABA program, but that's more social based. And trying to enter your child's world rather than teaching them skills, it's playing with them and trying to engage them in a connected way. Another one is rdi, which we also did toward the latter part of our ABA program, which helps with social skills and relationships. I really liked that because it's not expensive. If you don't have an RDI consultant, you can buy the book. And really you can do a lot of the activities on your own. It may not be quite as effective if you had a consultant, but it still seems to work pretty well.

Chris: Suzanne, I wanted to go back to the ABA again. Now. What kind of activities do they do?

Leeann: It is one on one intervention where you teach the child skills and you build upon those skills until they're mastered and then you build even further. So, for example, we had a verbal imitation program where we taught Clay how To talk. And we would teach him sounds, and he would be reinforced for that. He liked to be flown around the room like an airplane. And so the therapist would fly him around the room, or we would give him his favorite toy when he got the answer correct. So maybe we were teaching him the sound. D for dog. Then we would teach him ah and then G. And then we would put that together. It was a little bit of an excruciating process, but that's really how he learned to talk again.

Chris: How many hours a week?

Leeann: We started at 25 because Clay was still taking naps, but eventually worked up to 40. But obviously, the more time you spend in my mind and I'd have to look at the research again, the better outcome, rather, you'll have.

Chris: For more interviews on health, mind, body, and spirit, go to Michael Senoff's HardToFindSeminars.com. So ABA and then RDI and then what else did you guys work on?

Leeann: That's pretty much what we did as far as behavior. Biomedical was a whole different side. Clay had major gastrointestinal symptoms and red cheeks, and he just didn't seem like he ever felt good. And when he was young, he had a lot of ear infections and multiple rounds of antibiotics, and I think it put his gut flora out of balance. So we found out about that time there's a group called defeat autism now, Dan, is what they refer to it as. And as I was researching on the Internet, I found that a lot of kids really benefited from a gluten and casein free diet, which is the wheat and the milk protein to take that out. And I really hate to cook. And so I really didn't want to go there. But I buckled down and said, this is something that we have to try, because kids with Clay, same symptoms were really benefiting. And so I did. I put him on the diet. And I think it was three weeks into the diet, he slept through the night for the very first time. That was our first positive thing that we saw from that. His belly started to not be bloated anymore, and he started having bowel movements every day before he would go a week, sometimes two weeks, and was just miserable. He would bend over on the couch and just cry. And after that, that really seemed to help him feel better so that he could then learn in these programs that we were teaching him.

Chris: So you basically cut out all wheat and dairy?

Leeann: Yeah, I learned how to make my own chicken nuggets that were gluten and caffeine free and with lay's potato chips on the Outside. But I had to disguise them. Chicken McNugget package so that he would think that they were his normal foods, because kids with autism oftentimes limit themselves with what they'll eat. In the case of my son, it was tan foods, and he would only eat three or four things. So it was really challenging to switch over. I thought I was a real trickster. I thought, okay, this is going to be it. This is going to be our strategy. And he saw right through it. And I tried to do other things, too.

Chris: I think it was more like he hurled them across the room. I think that stands out. He did.

Leeann: And I remember watching him hit the floor thinking, oh, this is going to be a long road.

Chris: My other favorite was the supplement, because we've actually had that kind of experience, too, where you finally got the supplement in him. And do you remember that one?

Leeann: Oh, yeah. And then he spit it all out on our ceiling. We still have a yellow mark from that coming out. And part of the supplement were cod liver oil, and it was stinky and awful. And, you know, it's funny now that I cried. I thought, why does everything have to be such a battle?

Chris: Exactly. We're laughing, but we're not laughing. Because part of the problem with, I think, treatment for these kids is a lot of times you go to your pediatrician or, you know, even your holistic practitioner, and they say, well, you know, up the omega 3s and you're going, okay, you know, how do I get this child to eat salmon or sardines? You know, it's not going to happen, you know, unless you happen to have the one that luckily craves that sort of thing. So it's such a challenge because these kids are, you know, a lot of times they're very difficult to get the right treatments, you know, without being very, very creative, as you were.

Leeann: It is. I really think it's just persistence. Unfortunately, we can't just give up and say, well, he won't take it, so I'm not going to make him. Let's just figure out how to get this down him and keep reintroducing and reintroducing until he finally decides he'll do it on his own.

Chris: That was very wonderful to read. Also where you said there was a transition there after several weeks, I think it was where he actually accepted the chicken.

Leeann: That was an amazing day.

Chris: And the supplement, I'm glad that you brought up the persistence thing, because it's like rolling a giant boulder up a hill. You know, you just have to keep at it. And for you it obviously created amazing results with your son Clay to reverse his diagnosis of autism. We've gone over ABA for treatment for autism, rdi, the gluten free casein free, the Dan type protocol. What else is out there?

Leeann: There's a lot of things under those umbrellas that I may not be as familiar with because we didn't do those with Clay, but I think those are probably the main ones in the biomedical. I just want to point out a lot of kids struggle with breeding toxic metals or things out of their bodies. And so there's certain supplements that can help with that, but just a lot of testing and that sort of thing to figure out what can help them. We actually did something called chelation, which is a little bit controversial, but I wanted to make sure that we were covering all of our bases. And we did that under the direction of a physician, and that's actually FDA approved to get lead out in children.

Chris: I got this off your website. It's wonderful. The autism speaks and I think they mentioned also occupational therapy.

Leeann: The occupational therapy worked really well for us. We couldn't afford to continue it, but we did a lot of things at home to help calm him. One of the biggest things for him was something called the Willbarger method. And we were given a special brush, and we're told to brush his limbs, so brush downward, for example, from his shoulder to his hand, go through and do that on all of his legs, arms, and. And then to follow up with joint compression to push his joints together. And that helped us to be able to go out into public for a little while at least, because it seemed to really calm him down and he craved that. They call it proprioceptive input. So they suggested that we get a trampoline. At the time, we couldn't afford a big one, but we got one of those little small ones and then graduated to a big one. And he would jump on it all the time. And it really helped to release that extra energy and helped him be able to function in a sensory environment parents can just do at home. And it's nice to be under the direction of an occupational therapist. I know that other kids have really benefited from weighted blankets that have those same proprioceptive issues. That's something to look into as well.

Chris: How about speech therapy?

Leeann: We could never afford speech therapy. That's something I wish that we could have done, but with our program, we never did speech therapy. I would definitely suggest, though, that that's right up there with ABA as far as what has the most research. So speech therapy, occupational Therapy and ABA are really. Language is so important because a lot of their frustration stems from not being able to communicate the way that they would like or the way that we can understand them. And so by facilitating that through the verbal imitation program and also following up with speech therapy is so important.

Chris: You know, it sounds like a lot of these therapies, you know, have the potential to really affect change and really change the outcome for these kids. But as we're talking, I'm sitting here thinking, wow, the price tag on this must just be staggering and how do people do it? And you know, you've gotten involved in the legislature now in Utah. What do you think about all this?

Leeann: I think that we need it paid for by insurance companies. ABA is a proven method that is prescribed. Our pediatric psychiatrist prescribed it to Clay when he was diagnosed. It's just something that families need, even if they choose not to do it. If your child has cancer or any other medical disorder, insurance covers that. And right now, insurance is discriminating against children with autism or individuals with autism because they need this. Not only is it the morally right thing to do in my mind, but it's also going to save us as society, billions of dollars. That's important to consider, especially in our economic downturn right now. And a lot of times we as society don't prevent things, we just let them happen and react to them so we could change lives and futures and also save taxpayer dollars by getting to this up front. And interestingly, Barack Obama has actually drafted federal legislation that will hopefully pass that will cover this. If you do it in your state, you can only mandate private insurance companies to pay, but if you do it federally, it encompasses those that are self insured. So I'm really excited about this bill. In fact, this morning I emailed my senator and asked him to co sponsor. If you want to get involved with that, there's a website called Autism Votes and you can go and you can send your senator and representative an email and ask them to co sponsor that bill.

Chris: First of all, you're involved in legislative issues. What are those? As we'd like to know. And then how did you get involved in that?

Leeann: I didn't intend to. I kind of fell into it, I guess. I had vowed that I would do what I could after my time freed up just a little bit and just realized there's so many parents going through advocating for their child in many different ways in the school system and trying to get appropriate treatment. I just felt like it was my job now that I was done to go back and help those others because so many had helped me. Another parent and I got together last spring and talked about this autism insurance initiative. I served on the Autism Council of Utah as the resources committee chair, and I would get a lot of calls from parents, and a lot of those were concerns with insurance, many of which they would say, my child had an eye surgery, but the claim was denied based on upon his autism. I was so angry because that, to me, is really wrong, number one. And I thought, we need to do something about this. So not only would our bill require insurance companies to cover medically necessary treatments, but it would stop that type of blatant exclusion. And so we started out and we visited with various legislators. I called up my state senator and told him what was happening and how well my son had done with these treatments and how they weren't covered, and parents were really struggling. And he just got it. He just had a passion for it. And he said, okay, we're going to bring up a bill and we're going to nickname it Clay's Law, and we're going to try and push it through. He said, but because of our economic situation in our country, it's going to be a hard, uphill battle. And I said, that's okay. We've done that before and we never give up. It may not pass, but we'll never give up. They'll have to answer to us in some way or another. To make a long story short, because our legislative session is only 45 days, it was a big whirlwind. Our bill passed the Senate, but then it failed in the House because it had a fiscal note, and our budget was big time in the red this year. So it was really disappointing. But we'll be back next year. We'll be pushing it again until either the federal mandate gets passed or the state mandate finally gets passed.

Chris: So do you have the wording on that bill?

Leeann: It started out as covering kids up to age 9. It would be $50,000 a year, and it would include occupational acute care, those individuals up to age 17. It would be $25,000 a year. And then it got watered down and more Amanda, to the point where I finally told them I didn't want Clay's name on it anymore because it was so far from our original mission and purpose. I said, that's okay. We're just going to try again next year because that's not going to help anybody. But now I'm involved in trying to get the federal mandate passed and working on that. That should be, I think, Going to committee or is in committee.

Chris: Does insurance cover anything related to autism at this point?

Leeann: You know, it depends on the insurance company. I believe. As far as self insured goes, I think Microsoft covers ABA and OT and speech therapy. There's Tricare, the military insurance also covers that. And then United Healthcare recently announced that they were going to start covering it. So there's insurance companies that are actually seeing the need rather than focusing so much on their bottom line.

Chris: And for a lot of kids, this is not lifetime maintenance. This is actual sounds like ability to recover.

Leeann: Absolutely. And that's why it was so hard to not see the bill passed because there were 600 families that are in this coalition that I co founded. And it was sad to see the looks on their faces when it didn't go through. A single mom with three kids on the spectrum. Email me and say, never give up, Leigh Ann. That's my motto.

Chris: We're not, you know, we have listeners in California. We have listeners on the web. How do they start this process if they want to get involved on a political level?

Leeann: I think, if I'm remembering correctly, I think California is in the process of bringing forth an insurance legislation bill. The best way to go about that is to go to that website called autismvote.org and click on your state. You'll see a map somewhere on there. Click on your state and it'll tell you everything that's going on. And you can actually sign up to receive email alerts and I believe that way too. They'll keep you updated on the federal legislation. There's actually a federal page.

Chris: I know a lot of people struggle in school when their child has these symptoms. Do you have any advice for parents on, you know, what is the best path if they're in that kind of situation?

Leeann: School is a difficult one and I don't have personal experience with that. But I would say make sure they get a good IEP and even have an advocate in there to help them with that. A lot of times our schools here, they don't do ABA or anything like that. And so sometimes you have to fight to get that. I'm not sure. Generally nationwide, I believe that's pretty similar. I think in California that they actually have ABA schools. But I may be wrong on that. It's always going to be a fight for parents to know that. Unfortunately, it's always going to be hard and you always have to advocate and that doesn't mean be rude and disrespectful by any means, which sometimes you want to because you have that deep pent up anger from having to struggle so much just to get what your child needs. But no, they probably won't give you what your child needs and that you will have to ask for more. Not to be okay with just the bare minimum, but to keep working on how to get them the best services that they need.

Chris: Now, we've also heard that there's a lot of controversy about vaccines and autism. And you know, every week there's different findings being reported in the media. And can you talk a little bit about that with us?

Leeann: Sure. And I want to preface it with I'm not anti vaccine, but I am pro phased vaccination schedule. And I think once the CDC will provide that if they ever do, a lot of these parents are going to calm down because we just want something else to go on. We believe the vaccination schedule is so aggressive for these little tiny eight month old babies that we're putting four and five shots into in one visit. For me personally, I don't know if that was the trigger for Clay or not. It happened to coincide with his regression into autism when they were giving him vaccinations, which I don't agree with either. You know, multiple ear infections. He was on really strong antibiotics and it was then that we kind of lost him. I believe there are different triggers for different kids, though. Our environment has become so toxic, we are careless with how we dispose of things. And we finally hit that tipping point where our kids, they're the canaries in the coal mine, they're suffering because of what we're doing. We've seen that with the asthma cases on the rise, there's just a lot of crud out there that I think is affecting our kids. And I think viruses could play a role too. Autism is such a complex metabolic disorder, it'll take years for research to sort.

Chris: Out all the different triggers. And some genetic involvement too, is that correct?

Leeann: Yes. They think that it could be multiple genes working together to create some sort of susceptibility and then an environmental trigger.

Chris: So with parents that lean more towards a schedule, what are they looking for there?

Leeann: Well, to slow it down, we would need to stop giving so many in one visit. Especially if there's in your family, if there's autism in your family, it's just better to play it safe than to risk triggering that possibility, even if we don't know for sure. But interestingly, Bernadine Healy, who's the ex National Institutes of Health director, went on the Today show, I believe it was last and it was in response to the Hannah polling case where they conceded that vaccines caused her autism because of an underlying mitochondrial disorder. Bernadine Healy said it has not been studied whether or not there's a certain susceptible group to vaccinations. And until we have that study, we will always put into question if that could be. And she made such a great point because mainstream medicine has for years denied a link. But there are studies that they haven't done yet. And until they do, those that vaccine autism war is going to continue to rage. I think that government officials are afraid to research this because they're probably afraid of what they might find. And vaccines have saved thousands of lives. There's no doubt about it. Our kids have just suffered because they haven't been studied like they should. I mean, there's other things that could happen as well, but we're looking at more of the herd type immunity than individual cases. Well, if one has to suffer, they suffer for the herd rather than. Let's take a look and figure out what susceptibilities there are in these kids so that we can prevent this from happening by either changing the schedule or waiting delaying vaccination. I don't think it's safe to, and I might get a lot of backlash from this, but to never vaccinate because then all of these preventable diseases will come back. I think we have to be careful with that, but we can't be extreme in either way.

Chris: Leeann, it's just been such a pleasure to talk with you today. Thank you so much.

Leeann: Thank you so much, Chris.

Chris: That's the end of our interview and I hope you've enjoyed it. For more great health related interviews, go to Michael Senoff's HardToFindSeminars.com.

Leeann: Com.