Paul: I guess some of the questions I have were talking about as though if you’re looking back when you were giving counsel to yourself as though you were starting over again—now knowing all the things that you’ve learned.

Michael: Right

Paul: And so one of the first questions I’ve had was – if you just took a 40- hour week and you could allocate your time between arranging audio interviews, performing them, editing them, afterwards writing the sales page and even marketing them, how would you spend that 40-hours a week? I mean can an allocation of that would you spend it equally among all five of those things?

Michael: I guess it’s going to be different for everybody. My situation is, I really don’t have a 40-hour work week, you know, I’ve got two young children, I’ve got an eight-year old and a five-year old and I’m getting a little more time as they get older but I just wish I had the luxury of a 40- hour week . So I personally don’t have all that work time and there’s a lot of people out there like that or a lot of people that you may be coaching, they may have kids, between karate and picking them up for school, my wife still works three and four days during the week. I’m getting them up, I’m making them breakfast, I’m getting them to school, I’m not back here in the office sometimes till 10:00 and then between lunch and doctor’s appointment, there’s always something during the day. Do you have children yourself?

Paul: I have four.

Michael: You have four! There’s never a dull moment. Maybe your wife handles a lot of the stuff that – you can understand there’s always something. Let’s say ideally if you wanted to do this, if you have a 40-hour work week that it’ll allow you 40 hours a week of pure work without interruptions.

Paul: I think I agree with you that for most people, getting a pure 40 hours is a challenge. I think more of my driving interest is that most of the time actually that during the interviews for most of the time I am actually doing them.

Michael: Alright if I was to break it down. First off, what I’m just trying to get out to you is everything I do here with these audio interviews in my business is all in a focus to leverage that time, to make the time that I do have more valuable and more profitable and get more out of it. So, outsourcing is where it’s at. And fortunately, I have a great team that I’ve been able to build up so like we’ll do this interview and there’s things that need to be edited, let’s say it lasts an hour long and there maybe 3 or 4 hours worth of editing to do on this interview. After it’s complete, I’ll save it to my hard drive and I’ll upload it to my website and I will send my editor a link and then she will start on the preliminary editing. So she’ll go through and do all the busy work and you may have heard me this analogy like when you get your teeth cleaned, the hygienist gets all the stuff off and then the dentist comes in and does the final work. So she’ll present to me an edited version of this interview that we do and then I will go through it pretty quickly and I’ll look for anything that she missed. Or I will put an introduction on it, I’ll put the ending on it, I’ll put the promotional pieces in the middle of it, I may change something around. Depending on what the interview is and who it’s with and how I’m going to use it, I may spend more time on it than another interview. And then some interviews, I’ll control all of the editing. So here’s an example. Yesterday, I worked probably for about four hours on a 30-minute interview that I did with a guy which is going to be going on to a CD ROM that’s going to be sent out possibly to tens of thousands of people. So that is an important interview and it’s a promotional interview to promote and feature my website. So this is a wonderful chance to generate a lot of new business so I wanted to make sure this thing was perfect. Something like that. I may not even leave up to my editor. I may just take control of the whole thing because this is a very valuable piece of –I’ll call it – audio real estate and I wanted to make sure it’s absolutely meticulous and perfect. I’d probably spend 4-5 hours on this thing even though it was only 30 minutes, where, but say I do an interview and I’m adding value to a product like let’s say it’s my HMA marketing consulting and it’s an interview that is just tacked on for additional interviews to only my paid members. And only my paid members are going to see it. I want to do a good job but I may not spend as much time as like this interview I’m explaining that’s going to go out to tens of thousands of people but if I was to allocate my time, where am I spending most of my time, the most time in this whole process is the editing of the audio interviews, if you choose to edit them. But I’m paying someone to do that...

Paul: Someone that you found from Craigslist?

Michael: Yes. Someone I found actually on e-lance, years ago and a lot of my team originally were people who’ve been with projects on e-lance and if you find someone who’s good and the price is right and you like them and they do good work, you can eventually get them off the e-lance and you just have a relationship with them where you take it outside of e-lance. So this woman, her name is Dianne, she’s wonderful, she is a great editor. I’ve been working with her for years. Is it hard to find someone to do the editing? I don’t think it’s that hard! It can be a challenge, there’s been times when I wanted Dianne to focus on other things so I just put an ad on Craigslist and I find a lot of people willing to do editing. I trained a couple and they did a good job and you got to find some who’s going to stick with you, you know.

Paul: Without setting up the interviews

Michael: Setting up the interviews, well I guess where I’m at now because I have the credibility, I have a little letter, I copy and paste, and if there’s someone I want to do an interview with, I have this letter, I’ll send it to you but actually I should have it up there for the audio marketing secrets students and it’s an invitation that invites some to do an interview and I’d just email it out but I won’t get an interview with everyone I email it out to. You may email out ten people and get one person to respond. You’re only worried about the ones who say yes

Paul: Now when you first start out, then I’ll imagine you made the telephone calls?

Michael: If I was talking to someone during my normal business day, I may say - - hey that’s a great story can we do a recording of this? Can we do an interview? I’d ask them. I can remember many of them. Joe Vitalie, we did email back and forth, I get hey you want to do an interview. If you’re going after a certain person, give me an example—who would you want to interview? Is there anyone you have in mind?

Paul: More profession, not a specific person

Michael: Okay you could call him up, you could send out an invitation in the form of a letter. You could do it in the form of an email but you got to understand what’s in it for that other person? Ok? First of all you got to understand people LOVE talking about themselves. How often does someone get to brag about their work and their profession and have someone who’s really willing to listen and ask questions I mean, that’s rare today. It’s rare for someone to really take an interest on what’s someone’s doing so that already is going to be a breath of fresh air for that person. When you ask someone to interview them, I mean a lot of people are honoured or flattered because not too many people have asked them that. Now if it’s someone who’s real high-demand and they’ve been interviewed all the time and they’re just too busy, you could have them come up with some other reasons why. What are the reasons why this person would want to be interviewed? Now, you may not have a website with hundreds of hours of interviews but you could say you’re planning on taking this interview and distributing it among thousands of potential businesses that could hear who you are, hear your expertise, this can position you on a market place. This could bring you new business. So that’s what in it for them. What’s in it for them is new business, new clients, and new customers.

Paul: Now in most of the people that you interviewed and that was important to them, did they have products that they were already selling? That you said, that you wanted to participate in promoting a product as well. I don’t remember hearing that.

Michael: Some do. Some don’t. As I progressed over the years, I wanted to do interviews where I created the interview and it is used as a marketing piece where I could promote something that I can make some money on. So absolutely—you know when I offered the interview, so not only was I getting a good interview and getting good information out of them but I was getting a new potential revenue source. So if I did my job in doing the interview and creating the best possible promotional interview, I could, at the end of the interview, call the action and direct them to call a number or go to their website. There’s many interviews on my site that do that that are income streams for me .Even though they provide good stand alone value on their own for the people who’ll listen to them and want more information, I’m directing them to make a call to a phone number that I control or that I may have an affiliate relationship with. Not all of them. There’s some interviews on my site that are just pure interviews, I direct them to the website and I’ve no affiliate relationship with them at all, anyone I send over, they’re going to get all the money I’m not going to get any, and that’s fine too. Because you got to ask yourself why do I want to do this interview? If I want to do an interview like for example with Tom Hopkins, one of the biggest name in sales training. That he had a seminar that was coming up. This is the reasons why he wanted to do the interview with me. He knew that people on my list were good potential prospects for his upcoming yearly sales training seminar. He scheduled the interview with me, we did the interview, he got to plug his seminar and I didn’t ask for commissions for anyone I sent to --- I didn’t care because I wanted the marquee value of saying: hey I interviewed Tom Hopkins www.hardtofindseminars.com does interviews with Tom Hopkins – that’s a big name that boosts the image and the credibility of my site that I have been able to get an interview with a big guy like that. You see?

Paul: Yeah

Michael: You could ask yourself, what’s the reason I’m doing the interview? Am I doing it for marquee value which is like a Tom Hopkins or a Jay Conrad Levinson? There was no financial gain for me doing the interview with Jay Conrad Levinson but he has a great big name and that increases the marquee value of my website. And in the big names like that, these are always good to have.

Paul: Now with respect to the number of interviews, what’s a realistic number – one a day? One a day is a good number.

Michael: No it’s pretty draining. If you’re doing the interview, there’s preparation involved. So you fortunately have typed out all my questions , I spend about 15 minutes looking at your questions and just jotting down some ideas of things that I would talk about just in case I drew a blank or whatever. I mean, I think if you said, this is all that you want to do, you want to really focus on knocking out 50-60 interviews in the next 6-7 months, you could schedule and do one a day. I think an hour interview in the morning, you won’t be able to do all the editing yourself, but if you get an editor who’d do the editing for you, I think one a day is realistic and you’ll be pretty busy doing that. But you got to have your support staff. Now the process I do, I do the interview, I got to do an interview with you, I’ll get it edited, I’ll review it, and do the final editing. I’ve got a writer on my team who listens to the entire edited interview and writes the description for it , the headline and the description and then I get it to my transcriber and I get it transcribed and then I have to create art for the cover. I have a different person for that. So I format the editing, headline description and the transcription. Those are the three things you’ve got to do. But you’re going to be involved in all those processes. Just you won’t be as involved. You know what I mean, typing out the transcripts. You’re not going to be re- listening to the whole thing writing the descriptions. You’ve got to find a team who’s better than you are to do this stuff. And my team is better than I am at doing all these things.

Paul: Yeah. That makes sense. You’re listening to an exclusive interview found on Michael Senoff’s www.hardtofindseminars.com

Michael: There’s no possible way you’ll have the stamina to do it all yourself. I was doing all the editing myself earlier on. I mean, I learned a lot, it gave me the ability to train someone that had to do the editing. I kind of enjoyed it but your time is far more valuable doing other things than editing audio. The final edit is important, that’s fine

Paul: Obviously when you started, it seems to me that you put together fifty, a hundred interviews and had them online and sort of started developing, that is the lead generator, and then after a while you started developing packages of, you know, like an idea and then start put together several interviews to make it a package that you could sell.

Michael: Yeah that’s exactly right.

Paul: And if you’re doing it over again now and talking to yourself, would you say, Okay Michael, I want to get 50 interviews done and create a place for people to come to. You say, Nah, I don’t think I would do it like that anymore. I would try and put together the packages early. I don’t know, what do you think?

Michael: There are so many things you can do. I mean I used the interviews for all of the above. The main thing, my mission is –and I’d say this to build the world towards a free digital, downloadable resource for business interviews. Okay so I’ve kind of made my mark in the sand that my stuff is going to be the largest website of free audio interviews.

Paul: That’s your USP

Michael: Yeah pretty much, okay. I’m a place to go get free business audio interviews. Now within those interviews, like I said there’s a message to my madness. I’ve got interviews in there that are selling people on things. Number 1-- They’re selling them on me. The quality in all my interviews, and the questions and the productions that I produce are all selling my credibility and my website’s credibility. That’s number one. Number 2-- They’re selling products that I control and promote. Now, before January, I had like 17 different products and as you compile more and more interviews, those interviews can be packaged into separate products. So, I took all the interviews related to joint-ventures before January and I created a product code, joint venture magic, which is a collection of all my audio interviews on joint ventures that had the recordings, the transcripts and then an additional course on joint ventures in that package yet. As I did more interviews on trade and barter, I packaged all those together and created a product code, barter secrets. And as we did all the interviews on business buying with our business buying experts, that became a product that sold for up to $1500. I’m always testing different stuff since January –and now I’ve taken all my private products that I used to sell on the site now I’ve packaged them with the one product which is my HMA Marketing Consulting System. Now I have hours and hours of interviews on marketing consulting. I don’t know, maybe for my HMA System.

Paul: With Richard, Yeah.

Michael: That’s a $6000 com study training and that’s my main product that I’m pushing. Ok. So I give away all these interviews but as people like the interviews and they learn more and they spend more time on the site, they’re going to know about Richard, they’re going to listen to some of the recordings on consulting. And some of them might going to come out and become HMA Marketing consultants. So my model, by giving it away for free, give them value, build customer rapport, get them to like you and some of them are going to come out on the other end buying something from you, coz there’s other things I sell too for income, you know. I provide audio interview services, I do product creation where I help someone and create an entire product, there’s revenues with joint-venture opportunities with – there’s so many different ways to make money from it but it all starts by giving away the interviews for free. Now you don’t have to do it that way. You could put your 50 interviews together and not give them away for free, maybe you could give snippets, one minute or two minute clips –just like iTunes does. And so the listener can listen to kind of get an idea or feeling what it’s going to be about. Give samples and then have a sales letter that sells a membership site. Or it sells a product. You could have all the descriptions and the headlines written up saying here’s what you get. You get this interview with this expert, this expert. You can have 50 of them all packaged. You can have them transcribed. You can have them on CD or you can have it all as a digital product and you could sell that for a one-time price. You could sell it as a membership site. Let them know that every month you’ll do two additional interviews related to the topic or to the market you’re going after. There’s all kinds of different models. I just happen to be doing the free. Give it to them free, get them in there and then go for some back in sales. That’s the model I’ve been using.

Paul: Well, and you’re right. There are a lot of different models you can do and most of any business venture, I get to the part that I’m curious about for you is looking back on the way you did it starting off. You trying to make your first thousand bucks, let’s say.

Michael: Yeah

Paul: What do you say to yourself?

Michael: Looking back?

Paul: Yes, you say, yeah you know what, if I were doing it again, this is how I would have jumped at it.

Michael: If I needed to make a thousand bucks as fast as possible and I had the skill to do an interview—I understand that it would be a joint-venture. I would approach someone who had a website, who had a list, an email list or a mailing list most likely, an email list and there’s ways to determine that. Let’s say you found a seller on eBay and you can look at their history if they’re a power seller you can see how many reviews they had. If you find someone on eBay and they’re selling a product and they have ten thousand reviews, you know there’s at least ten thousand sales. And since PayPal owns eBay, you know that anyone who has a PayPal account has the email addresses and the names and the information of all their customers, all in a downloadable spreadsheet available at PayPal. You need to know that the person you’re approaching had a mailing list. That’s valuable number one, you need to know they have a good product and a good website and good customer service then I would approach them and introduce myself and approach them to say –hey I think I know where I can help you sell more (blank). I’ll give you an example. I was online, I was looking at this electric skateboards. These are big skateboards. They have these battery packs and electric skateboard. They have a hand-held control and they look really cool. Now I used a skateboard when I was younger and take my kids down to the bay and I sit them on a skateboard and pull them around. I just thought this was cool and I found the company’s website and I found that they were on eBay. Their website was all black and it was ok website but it was real dark that text was in white on black reversed print, very hard to read and I wanted one of these skateboards but I didn’t want to pay $800 for it. I want three of them. One for me and one for each one of my kids. So what I did, I emailed this guy , I found the email address on the site and I said in the subject line – I can help you sell more electric skateboards. And I said in the email, you may know a lot about electric skateboards but you don’t know too much about marketing your electric skateboard and I just introduced myself and said I went to your site and see that you have the black website with white writing. And research says that it’s a lot harder for someone to read white writing on a black screen and I think you’re repelling customers. I’ve got a few ideas that can help you sell more of these skateboards, if you’re interested, give me a call so the next morning I get a call in my voice mail –hey this is Dave of e-glide electric skateboard – I got your email, tell me what this is all about. So I got his interest, ok?

Paul: The hook.

Michael: Yeah that’s the hook and my next goal was to set an appointment to take him through this opportunity analysis to really look at his business but it wasn’t to sell him. All it was to do was to get an appointment. He called me back and I explained who I am and what I can do and how I saw his site. I’ve got an 8-year old kid, you know. Ordinarily I wouldn’t contact you but the reason I am is I really want one of these skateboards. One for me and one for each one of my kids and I said I think I can help you. I made him an offer that he couldn’t refuse. In my consulting, I wouldn’t do this normally. But this is kind of like a fun project for me.

Paul: Yeah But you told him straight exactly what you can do

Michael: Yeah. So I made him an offer. I’ll go , Look, I’ll create an audio interview for you, I’ll do some marketing until you’re absolutely satisfied until you think you’ve got enough value where you’ll send me free your electric skateboard. It’s like fun. You know what, you’re making me an offer I can’t refuse. I’m excited, let’s do it. So we set up a time and I did two one-hour interviews with him and I edited it down and created a hard-hitting 30 minute audio interview about his electric skateboards which covered every aspect from the batteries, the truck, the wheels, the boards, the parts and china, the connectors, really detail. He’s got an incredible tool now that he can send his potential clients too.

Paul: Been like the Claude Hopkins Brewery

Michael: Yes!!

Paul: Perfect!

Michael: He said, Oh people don’t want to hear all that. I go –Dave, you’re wrong. The recording’s too long. I go, you’re mistaken, it’s only too long for the person not interested in a skateboard. That’s exactly like pre-emptive marketing. It’s what I did in that recording. So you can approach anyone. Now I did it just to get an electric skateboard for myself and I’m still working with it I’m not finished because he sent me six names of experienced writers who write his e-glides that did more features and benefits in the first two hour-interviews but now I need to get the real good stories from his writers. I’m going to get writer experiences and sell the fun and the adventure of it so I’ve got interviews to do with these customers which I’m going to put together and I’ll have all that transcribed and create a consumers’ report for electric skateboards.

Paul: Now he’s intending to use that as free ---

Michael: He’ll use it to educate his potential buyers or customers who’ve never heard of an electric skateboard.

Paul: Got you.

Michael: And he’ll outsell his competitors with this. So a good detailed audio interview using the Claude Hopkins technique like what he did with Shlitz beer . That’s all you got to do. You’re going to ask detailed questions and there’s way it’s made and some of the recordings had to prepare. You got to do your research online. But it’s so easy doing the research. You just write down every potential topic you can talk about. You get it all in an audio recording but then you edit it down to the best stuff.

Paul: Well that’s a good illustration of kind of like the first thousand dollars that is one really solid way to do it. Can we go the other strain and say young Michael Senoff –he’s no longer eight years old but he’s eighteen and he says Dad, you know, I’d really like to make a hundred thousand dollars a year

Michael: Ok then I would tell him to do the same thing what I told you is to set the hook, I can help you some more of these, your skill and your talent is by creating, editing and producing the audio interview or recording a promotional piece and then I would make the deal and do a joint – venture where I would agree to do and produce and create this promotional piece and I’ll send it to you into a joint-venture. So you’ll send this out to your email list or you’ll put it on a CD or you’ll use this promotional piece to market and sell your electric skateboards but I want x amount of dollars for every sale. Now the electric skateboard isn’t a good company because the margins are so low. He isn’t someone I would do a joint-venture. There’s no margins. He’s got a commodity and he’s competing against China so there’s just not enough margins in it for me to do that but I would approach someone with an information product or a seminar type product or business opportunity or distributorship where there’s thousands of dollars in potential product and there’s plenty of people out there that are selling services that has margins. Just by asking questions and doing the Claude Hopkins thing like what you just said, you can create a great promotional piece, if you do good editing and ask the right questions. People just don’t know the power. They don’t understand the power of that audio message that can be delivered and distributed online on a downloadable fashion.

Paul: Well that’s what you said you did with Mr. Art Hamill.

Michael: Art Hamill, Yeah. Well I found him on eBay! When I first started at that time, when I had my business, I was just buying and re-selling old J. Abraham stuff. But that was limited. I wasn’t producing that. I had to buy from the original people. I was running out of people to find it from so I said – I better get my own products here. I’ve got people coming to the site but I need some stuff that I control. And Art Hamill was selling his old original seminars from 1985. He had them in the basement, he had taken them back from his distributor and he was just dumping them on eBay. And I contacted him and we did an interview and I was buying his old seminars at $25 a piece and I created an audio interview. I took the transcripts from that audio and basically created the sales letter which is basically the transcript of the audio interview and I was selling those for $297. And I sold out his entire inventory and we must have gone through 150-160 sets of his course ad then we didn’t have anymore so I got the rights from him to re-master it and put it on CD. We had it all transcribed and took the workbook and had it turned into a PDF and since then, we’ve been marketing and selling that. Since the end of 2004, we’ve been selling that for $1500 a piece. Right now, I don’t offer that to the public. I’ve now packaged it with my HMA System because I’ve increased the value of my HMA System even more by adding that and making it exclusive. There is a reason I did that. I was spending a lot of time packaging and shipping physical products, dealing with the orders, processing credit cards, handling customer service and at the end of last year, I want as few headaches as possible and that’s why I decided to make all the products digital. I do no physical products anymore except my HMA System, the Art Hamill, the border secrets, the joint venture, my 31,500 links package, Eugene’s Sports package, Claude Hopkins package –all my products are now digital products. I don’t pack and ship anything.

Paul: I hear the thing that you’re saying is essentially, whereas maybe when you first started out, you might have offered to do that service. But as you have become more mature, and it’s easier for you to basically say –Hey I think I can help develop my own package here and they get more and more sophisticated and obviously more and more valuable and you can sell it for more with less hassle.

Michael: That’s right. More value, less hassle. That’s why I eliminated all the physical products. We still get returns with the physical products just like you would with digital products. A big reason we did physical was to reduce the returns. But they would reduce them a little bit but still. If someone’s unhappy with the product, they’re going to return it anyway, whether digital or physical.

Paul: You kept talking about the income side there –what about the expense side of doing some of those things? I ‘m not even sure that I know how many digital downloads you get but is that a large percentage of the expense of running?

Michael: I’ve got a relationship with this same guy who I set my site up with eight or nine years ago. He’s the same guy I’m still with and I’ve got a business relationship with him and we’ve been trading for webhosting services for years. I haven’t paid cash out of my pocket for webhosting and I have a dedicated server for my sites, with him. If you were to pay for dedicated server, you got to pay about $300 a month, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. I needed a dedicated server coz I have a lot of audios that are downloaded, I don’t know what the term is but I use up a lot of bandwidth or space or whatever so you need a dedicated server and you really need a reliable host, absolutely. But if you were to pay for it, you pay $300 bucks a month and you have all the space you need to host your websites and to offer your downloads.

Paul: So then what I really hear you say then is, you know, looking back from when you first started, how much time you’re going to do on it versus how much you were going to outsource?

Michael: Yeah your biggest expense is your outsourcing. The labour for the editing, and the transcribing and the descriptions. That’s your biggest expense. There are not enough hours in the day to get it done yourself. Your expenses for outsourcing, your labour, because it’s labour- intensive to produce something like this.

Paul: Now all of your interviews had been done on the telephone?

Michael: Well I haven’t done any one on one face to face interview. All done from the phone.

Paul: Got you. No home for that otherwise in other words, you’ve never had anybody ---

Michael: No reason. Plus, I’m going to get a lot better call in the interview rather than meeting face to face and having that microphone. There’s less pressure on the phone. I don’t have to go anywhere; they don’t have to go anywhere. There’s no reason to do a face to face interview unless you’re videotaping it for some reason. Or you really want to meet the person face to face. But you know, Tom Hopkins, why should I have to fly out there to go interview him face to face with the microphone when it can be done on the phone?

Paul: Video works well if you’re going to play it on TV during the middle of the day, for most business people, we don’t have time to put them and watch them on TV like that.

Michael: You know people want to take the audio with them on the road.

Paul: Has your quality changed at all

Michael: It has changed when I first started I was using this thing called Modem spy which was in software that allowed you to record calls, it was pretty bad. I didn’t know of any other way, then I learned about the digital recorder. I use a SONY digital recorder. You can pick this up from Radio Shack or any other electronics stores. I use that and I use a little thing from Radio Shack that allows you to plug in to the back of your phone so it captures the recording. This quality’s been pretty good. I’ve been pretty pleased with it. There is better quality you can spend more money. For a phone interview, I don’t think people are expecting broadcast quality. And your quality’s going to only be good on one side. I mean if I have the equipment here – the high-end equipment , I may sound like I’m broadcasting out of a studio NBC but the person on the other line’s still going to sound like he’s on a phone. Now I don’t like having that big of a difference. Now there is better quality out there I just haven’t done it. I think what I have is good.

Paul: The market hasn’t really called for it either.

Michael: Very rarely. I have some people who email me and say hey, you know, somebody’s audio is –it’s bad quality. They make you listen to the older one or it depends on how they’re listening through the quality of their speakers. I don’t know if they’re listening on their computers or through their headphones. It does bother some people but most people I think are pretty satisfied with it. I think I probably should get a better quality set up and I need to do that but what I’m doing right now is pretty easy, inexpensive and works. I haven’t had that much pressure or problems where I’ve been motivated enough to do that. I got some that works, it’s simple. Press the button, I’m used to it and the quality is still pretty good. Plus you know when I’m recording, I’m recording on a higher quality but when you upload it to the internet, you have to save it as an mp3 and you have to save it in a reasonable size file. Because if your file is too big and you’re asking your listeners to download it, its going to take them forever to download even with the high-speed connection, they have to be manageable for downloading and to get a smaller file, you’ve got to reduce the bitrates in kilohertz.

Paul: All in all, if the market is not asking for it and to get that higher quality, you end up costing your customers and spend a lot more energy time , effort, hassle, why do it.

Michael: Yeah

Paul: What about becoming an interviewer, you’ve obviously , like you’ve improved –you’ve just finished your stake of experience, what else makes a better interviewer Michael Senoff today versus an inexperienced Michael Senoff ten years ago?

Michael: Two things. One, research, you know. The interview is going to be as good as what information you’re providing the listener. And that’s going to be based on the questions you asked and the questions you ask are going to be based on your researches. So my job is creating interview and to provide value to the listener. What is it that the listener wants to know? What do they want to learn? How can I bring them value? So I’ve got to hit on topics that will satisfy listener, and I’m only going to be able to do that by doing my research. So doing thorough research on what the market wants and what the knowledge demands is what do they want to learn? I’m providing that to them. And one way I do that in some of my interviews is I email out from my list. Hey I’ll be interviewing Mr X here. He is an expert at basket –weaving. Any questions you have on basket weaving, please send them I’ll ask them on your behalf on the interview. So I’m going right to the marketplace. What do you want to learn about basket-weaving? And then I’ll have these questions, I’ll be giving them exactly what they want.

Paul: So you try to create some sort of form or structure there so that it makes some logical sence.

Michael: I’ll organize it, and you’ve heard me talk about it, go to amazon.com Search all the books on basket-weaving. Find the best sellers. Look inside the index, look at the table of contents, the index says, table set up for basket weaving. That’s the first thing or buying supplies. – So you turn that index into a question. So how do you get set up with your table before you start your basket-weaving. What are the important things I should know about buying supplies? And you just turn those topics in to questions and they’ll give you your whole outline. And then you could edit in or edit out from that table of contents or you can go look into index on amazon.com and look at all the detailed stuff talked about in the index. And if there’s something interesting, you could write that down. You can have plenty of information to ask your interviewee.

Paul: Typically when you’re interviewing someone, you had like a whole agreed-on formula if it’s a real hiccup you edit that out?

Michael: I explain to them. – it’s not the whole identity I’d go –it’s going to be just you and I talking. I say you don’t have to be nervous because anything you messed up on, I’ll edit it out. I’ll tell them, I’ll clean it up meticulously. I’d say that if they want they could listen to the whole thing before I send it out to my list, they can have final approval and then I’ll do that – I’ll clean it up. I’ll send it to them. Now here’s the edited version and they say, Fine, sounds great, go for it!

Paul: Do you take out stuff that you go back and listen to – you go – that’s going to be pretty dry

Michael: Oh Yeah yah yeah. I’m always editing down.

Paul: Okay

Michael: Editing out. Your editing process is usually taking stuff away. The boring stuff, dry stuff, irrelevant stuff, laughing, coughing, beeps, phone ringing, kids in the background, questions that have been asked twice. Maybe you didn’t like how he answered it, you could take out both my question and how he answered it. Editing to me is taking out.

Paul: Today, now obviously you’re a lot more sophisticated than you were ten years ago but today, would you say you start with an hour, you end up with a half-hour or you start with an hour you end up 45 minutes ----

Michael: It all depends. Every person’s going to be different when you talk to. It just pretends how well this person talks and you may interview someone and they speak very well. They’re polished. I think you’re interviewing presenters and speakers, they’re great. I mean there’s very little editing to do. They don’t repeat themselves. They know what they’re going to talk about. Those guys – so you did an hour interview, you may edit down to 45 minutes or 50 minutes. Someone who’s not polished and they’re all over the place. You could do an hour recording and edit it down to 30 minutes. Absolutely, I’ve done that before.

Paul: Do you like to take the space before even just between say a conversational question – there might be a second before they answer, do you cut that out?

Michael: Good question. I have, in the past, I try and edit out any dead space–if it’s a pause that’s too long , I’ll make it shorter but I’ve learned there’s a real benefit to having space between the words, you know. Those pauses can make your message more powerful. For more exclusive interviews on business, marketing, advertising and copywriting, go to Michael Senoff’s www.hard2findseminars.com And that kind of depends on or enough time to learn that. Maybe in the past I’ve taken out too much space and it’s kind of get moulded together with not enough space in between the words but you don’t want to make it where there’s long pauses where it’s so slow that the person’s going to get bored with their sentence –they’d say c’mon, hurry up, hurry up, because they’re busy. And they’ve got stuff to do, they’re in their car, they’re going to be home soon, the kids are going to run outside. They want to get through this thing.

Paul: What would you say is a good time frame—you’d like to say, hey I’d like to ideally end up with a 30-minute , 45 minutes?

Michael: Yeah it depends on how you’re going to use it. I think maybe a good 45 minute or an hour is good but I maybe wrong, if someone’s interested and they’d listen to it all. It just depends. Is your market interested in what you have to say and is your interview captivating? Is it providing value? If it is , they’d listen to it all . So it depends on your market and what you’re providing but I’ve done interviews that have gone 2 ½ hours that I have up on my site. Some hour and a half . Iit’s going to be hard sometimes to get someone to stay on the phone with you around two hours to get an hour and a half. I think people who are being interviewed, an hour is pretty standard. If it’s someone that I really want to get more information from , I may do the hour interview and say Oh Man, you know what , we’ve ran out of time, can we reschedule it , I’ve got a few more questions for you and then you can re-schedule it another day, to knock out the questions. He’s already invested an hour if you really want to get more, you can stretch it out and get more from them.

Paul: Over the years you’ve probably got better about anticipating what works well in terms of what people really want to listen to. What are the common dreaded things that you see, what like I would think maybe topics around, either making or saving money, really people jump on versus techniques on something more abstract, maybe not as much but what do you think?

Michael: Definitely, people want to save time, they want more freedom in their lives, they want to travel, they want to make more money, they want a real scoop. You know, you’d also ask me what else is important in an interview process besides the research and I don’t want to miss this but another thing I was going to say was it’s important that as an interviewer, you talk less in the interview. You got to understand that people are here to hear the expert and not really you and in other interviewers even when I first started , you want to type in and talk more and say, Yeah, I can really understand that and you want to relay your experience in relationship to the person you were interviewing. But you don’t hear me talking much unless I ‘m being interviewed like right now. If I’m interviewing an expert, you’re basically just going to hear me just asking the question, and then you hear the interviewee talking. So when you’re interviewing an expert, let them be the expert. You need to sit in the background and try not to let your ego make you talk more than you have to. I mean I find myself editing myself out a lot in some of my previous interviews. So that kind of comes to maturity in understanding who this interview is really for and that’s for your listener. They’re not interested in you. They’re interested in you because you’re asking the question on their behalf. You doing the interview, the listener is kind of imagining that he is you.

Paul: You mentioned something that’s very powerful that was the fact of having listed the people to ask questions –what would you like me to ask? Today looking’ back on, you start with www.hardtofindseminars.com that was kind of your cap into the funnels but today if you didn’t have that, how would you mark it?

Michael: For the quickest way to make money and the most powerful way to make money, if you’ve got these interviews you need to approach online businesses or offline businesses that have customers who’d be possibly willing to pay for this information that you have. You’ve got the interviews, you approach them. You say I’ve got these interviews, your customers would die for it, they pay you a hundred bucks for it, let’s do a joint-venture. Let’s do a deal. You want to do a deal. Can we offer your customer a list of my interviews? Could you endorse my interviews to your customers? You can set up an affiliate thing with them, you pay them 50% especially if it’s all digital product. You know the Art Hamill thing, we don’t have available on my site for the public but I did the interview with a student like yourself in the UK and he was in the land real estate business, a guy named Mike Buxom, and we were talking and he had listed about 4000 people who have bought a couple of mortgage courses from him and he really liked the Art Hamill stuff. He say, hey can I offer this Art Hamill thing to my list and do it and I said Sure. I said let’s do it. I was only going to do it if there was a digital product and we offered it at $399, which I forget what it equals to in pounds. I had a series of emails already prepared, I set up a special webpage, with the Art Hamill sales letter just for his special offer, just for his customers and we did about three different mailings list to 4000 and we sold to like 30 different customers at $400 a piece. I tapped in to that customer list that he’s been working on for years to build up and we split it up 50-50. He did the emails, I set it up, he sent the emails out and all I had to-do is send an email to his customer and charge their credit card. To promote it, we used a good sales letter but primarily, the real muscle behind it was the audio interviews I’d done with Art and some of his students already. And I got another guy on my list, he’s got a list of about 4000 here in the US and we’re going to do the same thing. I just put the sales letters and put his name –Special Offer for Dan Audio students. So lets say you had your 50 interviews and they’re all on a specific subject, you could pay someone off of e- lance or craigslist – good money to do nothing but be a joint-venture manager and to approach and set up joint-ventures with potential people and keep it digital and you know you could make yourself 5, 6, 7, 8, ten thousand bucks for a joint venture.

Paul: When he was promoting this offer, was there anything about you and them –

Michael: Oh Yeah I was just talking to my friend Michael Senoff here and he told me about a US business fine guru named Art Hamill, blah blah blah, here’s a record, you know and he directs them into the recording and the sales letter, that’s it!

Paul: Okay. So if I come in there obviously, if they didn’t become a buyer.

Michael: Oh yes, they know me now, they’re on my list

Paul: Now did you do the mailing? Did he give you his list?

Michael: No he did the mailing. I gave him the text for the emails, of what to send

Paul: If you were obviously interested in either 1--Selling the product or 2-- at least getting down to add them to your list so you could send them updates on other audio products that you were producing…

Michael: Yeah, I didn’t make them sign in with an squeeze page. They were sent the link, they could hear the interview and read the letter right there. You know we have maybe 40 sales out of the 4000 –for the people who visited the site, we were able to sell 2% which is a good number. Now that was 4000, but what if there was a little list of 40, 000?

Paul: Right! And I hear what you’re saying there – because of the power of these you wouldn’t necessarily even have to go spend money on paper clip

Michael: I didn’t have to spend money on anything.

Paul: Have you ever spent any money on advertising?

Michael: I used to pay per click years ago and I just said ah I’m done with this. I don’t want to mess with it. I didn’t have the patience to measure and follow it and it was just a pain. I mean I probably should do a pay per click, I just didn’t want to mess with it, I was spending a lot of money on the clicks and I guess I was too inundated or too busy or too lazy to measure it all. I didn’t have that stick to it eagerness to really pursue it but it drove me crazy.

Paul: I understand exactly what you’re saying.

Michael: Yeah, it took up too much time.

Paul: When you’re going on to a question just about people that you want to interview, what have been your most successful ways of giving them a reason to want that – to give you an interview versus, maybe some other things that you look back that wasn’t very successful. I’ll pry with you that on that angle

Michael: You know, on TV, Oprah, all these shows –when someone comes on to agree to an interview, they’re promoting something. They got a new book coming out, there’s a movie coming out, they’re sponsoring a charity, there’s an event, there’s always something in it. There’s a reason why someone is going to give an interview. You can approach publishers. You can go to amazon.com. Search your topic, let’s say it’s basket-weaving. Find all the books on basket-weaving. These are experts who have written a book on it. They maybe not necessarily have sold any books and then you can contact the publisher, find out the author, find their email, call them or contact them through the mail and introduce yourself and say “would you be willing to allow me to interview you about your book on basket-weaving? Most publishers don’t sell a lot of books. Most publishers are making very little money on their books and they need to move some books. So any publicity is good publicity. They don’t know who you are. You could have a website that looks pretty professional you don’t have to have hundreds of interviews. You could say Paul Stack is a professional interviewer and you know, you got to give them a reason why they want to interview you. You got to tell them that if you’re not distributing their interviews to tens of thousands of people, you can say you’re working on a promotion to distribute their interview to tens of thousands of people. You’re interviewing the world’s foremost basket weavers in the United States and you’re going to be offering these interviews free to people interested in basket – weaving and this will potentially bring you new business. Now not everyone is going to say yes but some will.

Paul: Have you ever had to pay for an interview?

Michael: I’ve never paid for an interview. Only with my time, I would pay for an interview though. If that’s what I really wanted and if it’s valuable to me, I’ll pay him. No problem.

Paul: Have you heard about that story recently about Russell Bronson that paid for that 5-hour interview.

Michael: Who is that with? Do you know?

Paul: Vincent...

Michael: Oh yeah, Vincent James. Yeah. I interviewed Vincent James for 9 hours. I did that even before Russell.

Paul: Did you?

Michael: Yup. I had a nine-hour interview. We never came to a deal we did the whole promotion and we couldn’t agree on what we’re going to do and we were just sitting on my desktop –I can’t release it or anything until I knew it’s okay. I told him I would but we could never come into an agreement – so it’s the whole everything. It was incredible. Did Russell Bronson pay him when he did the interview?

Paul: I believe he did.

Michael: That’s very possible.

Paul: Yeah. I want to say that he actually stayed and then he paid like ten thousand dollars

Michael: That’s possible. It’s probably worth it.

Paul: I bought it. I think you said it sold like ten thousand copies and it’s like $40 a piece.

Michael: Wow that’s great!

Paul: Well I mean, I hear what you’re saying

Michael: A guy like that? You know, he had that story. There are all kinds of people with great stories. Then you could pay for the licensing rights of this story. There’s a new movie coming out with Tom Hanks—How Starbucks saved my Life and there’s a book about it. That’s a true story about this older man, in his 60s, he cheated on his wife, he got divorced, he was homeless, his kids didn’t want to talk to him and he would go to Starbucks everyday and the manager came up to him and said- are you here to apply for a job? And he never even thought about it. He had no money and he took the job at Starbucks. He got medical benefits and Starbucks really saved his life. You know, he made friends with the employees there. One of the big motion pictures bought the rights to that story and Tom Hanks is playing that guy and he’s going to be in the movie. Yes, you can buy any story and in a licensing agreement that’s pretty comprehensive – you know that’s licensing. You can license a story and have exclusive worldwide rights to that story. So if I approached Vincent James and he didn’t have a book or he wasn’t doing anything with it, I could approach him and say you know I’m a publisher, I’d like to buy the rights to your story. And you can buy that with maybe a small, upfront advance- you can give him $2000 and say that I’m going to buy the rights to your story and then I’m going to produce an interview series with you and we’re going to promote it. We’re going to sell it as a book. We may try and sell the movie rights to it but I will own the rights to your story and then you could make an agreement – a licensing agreement that you’re paying him for royalty —a percentage, 1%, 2% depends what you negotiate. And you can obtain that, you know, property rights to a story. Absolutely, so you could do that with any potential person before you interview him.

Paul: Now it sounds like what’s important to you in that process is that, okay you negotiate whatever is a win-win but you want to have the final – they sell him the edited interview?

Michael: Yeah, you want control, you know, if you’re going to put your time in the production and editing and everything, you want control. You definitely want control. You’re the doctor. You don’t want him telling you how it’s going to be edited. You need control. All my interviews – I mean they understand, I’m going to do the editing. This is it. I’m producing it. This is how it’s going to be.

Paul: Have you ever had any push back when you have like little audio trailers in the front, middle or end that they come to this site or ask about this product or you might want to check in to this service.

Michael: I haven’t. You know I’m pretty bold when I do that because you know I use these interviews to promote Michael Senoff. Another example, there’s a great sales trainer named Eric Lolfholm and he’s in the sales training industry and we did a trade where they approached me and I’ve known him for years and we’ve gone back and forth, we’re always going to do something. I was going to interview him and he was going to interview me and I was going to promote a training that they had and then they were going to promote something of mine. So I did the interview with him on sales scripting and then he’s going to be putting that up on his website so he could use that interview for whatever he wants and I’m going to put my version up on my website. But the version I sent him doesn’t have my promotion in. It’s just the straight interview directing his listeners or his potential prospects to his stuff. There’s no “you’re listening to Michael Senoff’s www.hardtofindseminars.com in his version. But in my version on my website, I have that, so if you felt like there was going to be pushback or problem like that, when they come pop in and wanted to put the interview up on his site, you going to kind of play it by ear, I put my promotional stuff and if I think it’s going to kill my chances of them putting it up on their site, then I’ll send it to their customers. I would leave it off.

Paul: That makes sense.

Michael: But there’s ways in the interview where the listener can get to know you and there’s subtle things you can do to get them to go to your site, if that’s what you really want and you always want to be promoting but you don’t want to be a hog about it. All depends on the situation

Paul: How do you use –what’s that service that you can go out and get all the mailing listings

Michael: SRDS?

Paul: Yes.

Michael: I’ve subscribed to the SRDS for years and I’ve found the mailing list off there before. It’s incredible resource.

Paul: Do you do mailings today?

Michael: I don’t. I mean, some I want to do more of –I’ve done some test mailings –I haven’t done as much as I should and would like to and I always have plans to do it because it’s an incredible resource.

Paul: One thing I’ve noticed that you liked to do and I guess I’m going to ask you if it works for you or what always does work for you and that’s when say for example, if I purchased a product from you, oftentimes part of the package will be some sort of a short consultation. Does that work pretty well for you? You’ve kept it in there over the years.

Michael: Oh Yeah Yeah, -- you know, you’ve bought the audio marketing secrets and now we have a chance to talk, the consultation is valuable. Now I guess we wouldn’t be doing it if you didn’t think it was –you know, that’s part of what you pay for

Paul: Do you kind of see it lead.....

Michael: Oh yeah yeah yeah. Sure it can and has led on to other work and joint ventures and stuff like that , yeah. If you already have this product put together and you need to do consulting and you want to talk to me about it, I get to learn a little bit about what you’re doing, I have some intelligence on your mailing list, I can say Hey why don’t we do it. It leaves the door open to get to know your customer better for a potential deal if that were to happen, absolutely. Paul . This has been terrific. You know for me , personally, the reason why I’ve loved listening to the interviews at your site is that I travel a lot and I just download them on to my iPod and you know, I work out , I listen to something –

Michael: Do you have headphones in your ears when you’re driving or do you do it from your car stereo?

Paul: Both

Michael: Okay How does the quality of sound, sound to you? What do you think of the quality? Not that good through your headphones or your car stereo, would you like to hear a better quality sound?

Paul: For me personally?

Michael: Yeah

Paul: I’m totally satisfied. I even play it while cutting the grass

Michael: Oh yeah, good. Look I got my little iPod shuffle and when I put my kid to sleep sometimes, if you want to see the (inaudible) (52:38) for 30 minutes –and I pick my little shuffle and I’m listening to audio while I’m waiting for him to fall asleep.

Paul: You have, over the years, as you’ve got to know different people, you’ve come away and say, Gosh, I really understood what he was thinking and other people just might say I just don’t get it

Michael: Yeah

Paul: But I really get to how you think. I mean it’s exciting to think about the opportunity. For me personally, Like I say I’m coming in to this, my primary interest has been I love to help other men grow and develop. And there are so many things you see in people’s lives that could be so much better not just for some other people that’s been around. And then you hear about people like you said I bought the barter secrets.

Michael: Did you get barter secrets from me? Oh good.

Paul: Yeah. You know I sit there and go -- I had no idea that that was even out there.

Michael: What do you think of it? Did you go through that whole thing?

Paul: I have

Michael: Pretty incredible.

Paul: Awesome.

Michael: It’s awesome

Paul: It was amazing – that’s in there for all this time

Michael: Yeah

Paul: I just didn’t know it. And really the heart and soul of it is really a development of your whole JB idea.

Michael: Now let me interject about the barter secrets- I’ll give you an example on how I did the interview. I got a call from a guy on Friday and I had an ad up on iText. iText puts ads up for deaf people . So I had an ad up on iText for some of my J Abraham stuff for trade. And this guy called me and he has been involved in the barter industry for 15 years. He has done incredible deals with barter. I mean this guy’s really seasoned barter guy. He had a great radio voice and he had been to my site. We just got to talking and he does a lot with media and discounts liquidated, billboards, radio, newspaper advertising.

Paul: Oh that’s fascinating.

Michael: I go –let me interview you. I go -You put together your top 20 case stories on trade deals and he said, alright, alright. He hadn’t been to my site. And I guess when we hanged up , he’s like okay, yeah we’ll do it , I’ll come out there and we’ll meet face to face . I didn’t want to be rude and said – I’m not meeting you face to face, we can do this all over the phone and so he did go to my site and I got a call like the next day that says like: Michael, I saw your site, and Man, I’m going to read every bit of this. And so we’re definitely going to do an interview. I can’t wait coz this guy’s really seasoned. And so that’s a perfect example of how you get interviews when you’re talking to people everyday is you find out what they do –you know, what their expertise is, and you just say hey, let’s do an interview

Paul: That’s what J Abraham had that story about getting all the billboards at Christmas time for like one one hundreds of value and trade them for the…

Michael: For the racers.

Paul: The racers, yeah – do you remember that?

Michael: Yeah.

Paul: Wasn’t that great?

Michael: Yeah, that’s exactly right

Paul: Hey maybe just one question, it wouldn’t be on the interview – so based on just some initial conversation that we had today, what would be some tips that you’d have for me in terms of how to relate with people on the telephone? In other words, specifically, Paul, here’s some things I came across well; here’s some things that I think you could work on.

Michael: Just based on us talking?

Paul: Yes.

Michael: Oh I think you’re fine. I mean. Nothing, you just asked me the questions straight out in a normal tone and I’m relating to you fine. I wouldn’t say there’s anything you could do more. You didn’t butt in, you just asked the question, you’re a good listener, I think you’re ready to go.

Paul: Okay

Michael: Have your questions written down; once you know what you’re going to ask, doing the interview is easy. If you’re prepared, you have all your questions --

Paul: Here is a part that I come a way just so absolutely amazed and this kind of conversation is I’m coming away with something very tangible and different really, than when I started. And that’s just more developed appreciation for how you fought through your whole JB concept of finding people, offering to give them something and then looking to partner with them on and helping to set it out to their list.

Michael: You got to understand that interview most people just don’t get it how valuable and how powerful it is – you know a professional copywriter will pay a copywriter a real good one 10, 15, 20,000 dollars to write a sales letter. Me and Ben Settle, he’s one of my copywriters, he writes a lot of copy for me but we have a little system where I do the intensive interview, I give him the interview and the transcripts and he builds the copy from the transcripts. It’s all got to start with the interview. It really starts from the research and the questions before the interview but once you get all your questions lined up and you’ve done your research, that’s the most important thing and you’re asking the questions that your potential market needs to hear the answers to, or wants to know the answers to. Or has concerns about or wants to hear the answers to common objections about, if you get all those in the interview, then you’ve got gold, and especially because with the internet, you could deliver it and have it downloaded, people don’t have to read it, they can if they choose, and it’s just an automated selling message that could become viral that just could make you money. 24/7 while you’re sleeping.

Paul: You’ve got the frond into your funnel though pretty well-developed, would you say?

Michael: Yeah yeah yeah I do

Paul: So in other words, if you’d ever did another interview of you in your life, wouldn’t have you taught them the final key........

Michael: Yeah because there’s always a new parade of people. Yeah that’s true. I love doing these interviews and I love creating interviews. And creating these products, sometimes, doing the marketing is not as fun –you know, doing the work, so it’s always a battle. I do want to keep building more and more interviews. I want to keep it bigger, better you know. But I do have to pinch myself and say –stop- you got enough interviews here, do more marketing , get more people to it. So it’s a combination of both.

Paul: Okay, That makes sense

Michael: Product developers and creative people, they love creating products. I mean I love that but you can fall into a trap where you’re not doing the things that you should be doing, like selling and marketing. If you know you’re a person like that, you form it out like my assistant Dianne, not only does she do the editing. I’ll give you an example. You Tube, OKAY? YouTube is an amazing resource to get publicity. We’ve taken every single one of my interviews and we’ve made 10-minute clips. YouTube has a limit of how big the file can be and we created a little movie that took my best testimonials out of my website and we made slides so I have a ten minute slide presentation of nothing but testimonials and then you hear the audio of the interview and I have the subject s so with Tom Hopkins, you hear the first ten minutes of my Tom Hopkins interview and then at the end, there’s a slide that directs them to www.hardtofindseminars.com so it’s a promotion

Paul: Is there a keyword that I can look up on YouTube?

Michael: Just type in Michael Senoff on YouTube, so we’re putting up. I think over 200 audio interviews up on YouTube and I’m looking at the views already. I mean, you know, they’ve only been up for a few days and we’re getting 17 views, 18, 20 some ten and you add that up

Paul: You’ll have like a thousand per month from some of those.

Michael: Once they get indexed, absolutely. It’s just going to be another source for getting people to my site.

Paul: What about iTunes? Is that as good…

Michael: Yeah, I’ve got almost all my interviews up on iTunes. I get a lot of people who want to download my site for iTunes. Absolutely, so those are the marketing things that bring people to the site. My goal is to get them to the site, get them to the site, get them to the site. And you do iTunes, you do YouTube, you do e-zine articles. All the marketing pillars. So that is something I have Dianne doing. She’s going to be working on this all week. By the time I finish paying her, maybe 500, 700, 800, thousand dollars before it’s all done. It’s all investment back in the business.

Paul: In some ways, you’re explaining it like Jay Leno

Michael: I guess in their little internet circles, maybe.

Paul: Well, I’m not so much in internet circles even though, you know, it’s digital downloadable stuff but I’m just in the business community. I tell people about this. But I mean the thing is. A lot of people already knew.

Michael: Oh Do they, really?

Paul: Yeah.

Michael: It’s hard for me to tell, I can only see how many unique visitors come to the site what I don’t see is, let’s say there’s a thousand unique visitors today who come to the site –all different people and lets say 400 of them come and they leave but the other 600 may be downloading an mp3 file may have it on their hard drive or they download a transcript. And then once it’s in their computer, you know, transfers are pretty viral because they’re not that big of a file they can send them off to their friends and people they know so it’s hard to tell beyond, when they initially come to the site and download. But once they have the download, they could upload it somewhere else, it’s hard to email a big file like that but it’s hard to say. I don’t know really how many people know about me. I know a lot do, but a lot don’t too. Let me ask you --- ah when you tell a lot of people about me, in what manner, what do you say? Do you say, go to his site—or have you ever emailed a pdf of a transcript?

Paul: You want to hear my sales script?

Michael: yeah let me hear.

Paul: Hey, they say, what’s going on? How you been doing? Oh man, awesome, I was on the way up here today – even this is to a customer- - I was listening to this interview by XYZ and he was tremendous. Now that guy had just great marketing insight. You have to go there, it’s free. You can go download it; you can either just read his transcripts or listen to it on your iPod. And they’ll go —oh where is it? I go—well, www.hardtofindseminars.com There you go, that’s my sales script.

Michael: That’s it. Okay. So you’ll them about it and they’ll go on their own.

Paul: Right I mean, I don’t sit there and say okay let me show you how to. you know, to do this, download it whatever....but I’ll get them started.

Michael: Alright that’s good I appreciate that. So these are potential prospects of yours or people you know?

Paul: Well remember again, I have an agency. You could see contractors and manufacturers and that’s some really great customers and I’m always showing them off new products that we’re making or trying to work on jobs that they were pursuing or projects...

Michael: And so some of these people say Oh, I know that www.hardtofindseminars.com ?

Paul: Yeah. If you remember a lot of the guys I’m calling on are sales managers or distributors, and so you know they’re kind of in the business of needing to be marketing savvy.

Michael: That’s possible.

Paul: Yeah. I wouldn’t want to tell you that everybody said yes – it’s kind of like intrigues me the number of times people say – I’ve been there before , in fact, I’ve downloaded some stuff.

Michael: Good.

Paul: I go, wow! That’s pretty cool

Michael: Well that’s a big role but it’s a small role too.

Paul: Well like you said, at the end of the day, I mean I’ve bought a lot of stuff from Nightingale. But you know, if you ask marketing people where to go to get good material, I think that you know , if they’re sloppy, they’re just going to say, well, I don’t know...amazon.com

Michael: Yeah but then you’d say no and then send them to my site

Paul: Yeah exactly. I don’t know. I don’t almost say that your site versus Nightingale’s, you kind of get the inside or scoop versus a kind of polished, you know, here’s a presentation for everybody.

Michael: Yeah that’s right.

Paul: You feel that way?

Michael: Yeah at Nightingale, there’s a lecture so, I mean, I learn from all of these guys and some are good but what I have is totally different in that 30 minute recording I was telling you I was working on , I really hit home on that. I am different because of these interviews. It’s different from a lecture. Lecture’s going to be boring. It’s hard to listen to a lecture. It’s harder to listen to a lecture than it is listening to an interview. Interviews are more drawn in to it and I try and ask the juicy stuff that people wanted to hear the answer to.

Paul: Exactly

Michael: You know, and that keeps you listening longer

Paul: No, I’m with you on that a hundred percent. Well this has just been really outstanding. I’m really grateful

Michael: No Problem, it’s my pleasure and hey this is how you got to use your time you know. It wasn’t a waste of time at all for me. I’m going to have another great recording. I enjoyed meeting you and talking to you. I’m going to edit it and there’s something I would have done anyway but now I’ve got more value for my site.

Paul: Well, and from my standpoint, I feel like I’m being a customer, I am a customer and will continue to look for new opportunity to be a customer.

Michael: Great. If you need anything else, just get back with me

Paul: Okay

Michael: Alright?

Paul: That sounds great.

Michael: Alright, buh-bye.